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| Is Psi "magick" for the non-religious? | |||||
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| Is Psi "magick" for the non-religious? on Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:16 pm | |||||
Dbizket
Joined: 16 May 2006 |
As a magick user, I'm fully aware that Magick and Psi go completely hand in hand even though Magick is more complex. Most psi users, especially all of the skeptics here, wouldn't believe that Magick is real, where as Magick is almost the same as Psi. It's all about energy manipulation except we use more sorces than just the ground or the sun, even though Magick users ground and center before every spell. We can also draw energy from the elements such as air, water, fire, earth and spirit. Magick users are aware as such skills as telepathy, empathy and remote viewing.. (and most of them use tarot cards to aid in the remote viewing.) But instead of manipulating the energy for fun (which is pretty much pointless), they use their energy manipulation productively for protection, healing, luck. Sheilding is considered a form of magic and so is healing. Actually a spell is defined by manipulating energy to cause a change. The only thing that differs Psi from Magick is the belief in the Gods and dieties.
Therefore, whenever you manipulate energy for TK or whatever you're doing, you're really casting spells. |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:58 pm | |||||
psi_manipulator_3000
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 |
Magick practicers believe in certain gods??? What? I would have thought that practicing magick had nothing to do with changing your beliefs. | ||||
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:19 pm | |||||
bladeslinger
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 |
magik and psionics are similar but different in a few ways...but both of them are considered "magic" 
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:46 pm | |||||
Nightshade
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 |
this was all covered in a thread in the psychokinesis area. a lot of the ideas in this thread are in there, as well as conversation and heated debates between wiccans (and other magick practicioners) and psi's/skeptics.
here's the link http://www.psipog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1460 |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:16 pm | |||||
Dbizket
Joined: 16 May 2006 |
No, you're right about that, but the majority of Wiccans, and Pagans DO believe in either a God, a God and Goddess, or astral dieties. You don't have to change your beliefs at all but that's just a common one. |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:45 pm | |||||
Lucidess
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 |
One word, terminology. Call it what you want, it doesn't matter. Call it psi, magick, mana, super powers, froozle, etc. | ||||
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:11 pm | |||||
bladeslinger
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:07 pm | |||||
WhiteRaven
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 |
"As a magick user, I'm fully aware that Magick and Psi go completely hand in hand even though Magick is more complex. Most psi users, especially all of the skeptics here, wouldn't believe that Magick is real, where as Magick is almost the same as Psi. It's all about energy manipulation except we use more sorces than just the ground or the sun, even though Magick users ground and center before every spell."
Uh... far too broad "But instead of manipulating the energy for fun (which is pretty much pointless)" Not Pointless, it's called practice. "they use their energy manipulation productively for protection, healing, luck. Sheilding is considered a form of magic and so is healing." And a dreadfully boring form at that. ever hear of Black Magic? Summoning? Necromancy? these are forms of magic, too. I don't think I should go into detail too much, lest I incur the wrath of the mods, seeing some would likely consider it psi combat... Suffice to say that you don't "sell your soul to demons" soul-selling is a silly nightmare, energy selling, maybe, but not soul selling. "Actually a spell is defined by manipulating energy to cause a change. The only thing that differs Psi from Magick is the belief in the Gods and dieties." I know some atheists who believe in magic, so don't even. "Therefore, whenever you manipulate energy for TK or whatever you're doing, you're really casting spells." That I will agree with. The dictionary's "calling on a supernatural force" is garbage, it's causing change in conformity with the will, credit to Aleister Crowley, the self proclaimed "wickedest man that ever lived." |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:48 pm | |||||
xJohnnyx
Joined: 09 May 2006 |
You don't have to be Wiccan or Pagan to practice magick. There are plenty of occultic Christians or Christian Wiccans and plenty of other tribal or any other religions around the world. |
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| Posted on Sun Jun 11, 2006 12:02 pm | |||||
Peebrain
Site Admin |
I'm basing my post on the wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick .
Under Crowley's definition, "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will", then a whole lot of things are magick. Like trying to quit smoking, or learning to play piano. If you want to strictly use Crowley's definition, then this thread is pretty pointless, because most change in someone's life occurs because they will it. Now let's look at some techniques. ..in the banishing ritual of the pentagram we not only command the demons to depart, but invoke the Archangels and their hosts to act as guardians of the Circle during our pre-occupation with the ceremony proper. WHOA. You don't see a HUGE difference between this and whats presented on PsiPog? The magician becomes filled with God, fed upon God, intoxicated with God. Little by little his body will become purified by the internal lustration of God; day by day his mortal frame, shedding its earthly elements, will become in very truth the Temple of the Holy Ghost. Day by day matter is replaced by Spirit, the human by the divine; ultimately the change will be complete; God manifest in flesh will be his name. 
Does anyone else read this and starting thinking to themselves, "yadda yadda yadda"? It's funny how people explain things. For example, in this thread, Dbizket explains, "whenever you manipulate energy for TK or whatever you're doing, you're really casting spells." But for me, I see the opposite. Whenever you do magick, you're really doing psionics plus a bunch of other useless garbage. Either way, I do believe that magick does produce results. The truth is that no one knows what's going on behind the scenes, so it's all speculation. If you want to believe and use magick, go for it. I'm not here to tell you psionics is "more right", and that you're wasting your time using magick. Do what works. However, a lot of people, including myself, find magick to be really unappealing. Invoke godesses and dispell demons?! My honest reaction is "wtf?" I see psionics as another belief system people can use to accomplish their goals. If you have the same reaction to magick that I do when you read about it, maybe you would find psionics more appealing. I don't know. I was raised atheist, with a strong emphasis on science, and very skeptical of anything paranormal. When I was 15, I was forced to deal with the hard truth that psychic abilities are real. I sure as hell wasn't going to drop all the useful beliefs that come with atheism and science just because I discovered a small hole in them  . I am no longer athiest, but I still find healthy skepticism to be extremely useful.
I'm sure you (Dbziket) were raised very differently. I believe that we are all working with what we have, and slowly changing our beliefs to align themselves with truth. Psions and wiccans are people who have discovered one basic truth: weird shit does happen, and coincidence isn't good enough. But we have drastically different beliefs on how to make weird shit happen, and what mechanism makes weird shit happen. Wiccans will talk about rituals, demons, angels, and gods. Psions mostly talk about visualization, energy, feelings, and science. I don't see that people need to choose between one or the other. If you like magick, and you like psionics... do both. PsiPog is about psionics though. If you want to talk about magick, go to a magick site. ~Sean |
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| Posted on Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:12 pm | |||||
sgtpsion
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 |
Bra-vo, Peebs! Very well said. Thinking back to my very brief dabblings with magick a few years ago (which, oddly enough, led me to Psi), I found that most of the stuff you present is pretty much bang-on.
Psi, Magick, Prayer, whatever you choose to use, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, I don't care what you use. If it gets to the same place, you're there. You can take a straight road (Psi), or more scenic routes (Prayer or Magick). It's personal discretion. Just remeber to consider your audience when talking about it though. |
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| Posted on Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:59 am | |||||
WhiteRaven
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 |
"I'm basing my post on the wikipedia article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magick .
Under Crowley's definition, "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will", then a whole lot of things are magick. Like trying to quit smoking, or learning to play piano. If you want to strictly use Crowley's definition, then this thread is pretty pointless, because most change in someone's life occurs because they will it." very true, when I speak of magick, I am referring to that, but only in the sense of the type of magic in which the mind and will not only plan, but also do. to wax the book "Nocturnal Witchcraft" by Konstantinos "all changes occur first in the mental plane, then the astral plane, then the physical plane, the ideas are created in the mental plane" (or the mind, if you don't believe in a mental plane, it really doesn't matter) "then are charged in the astral, and finally come to pass in the physical. for example, 'I need a house.' Mental. 'I will get a job and make money to buy a house' Astral. 'I have a house' Physical." Now I don't necesarrily agree, but I think it's pretty close. Now let's look at some techniques. "...in the banishing ritual of the pentagram we not only command the demons to depart, but invoke the Archangels and their hosts to act as guardians of the Circle during our pre-occupation with the ceremony proper. WHOA. You don't see a HUGE difference between this and whats presented on PsiPog?" There is definitely a big difference, not only between this and psipog, but also between all magickal systems, while there are many things in common, there are tremendous differences. "The magician becomes filled with God, fed upon God, intoxicated with God. Little by little his body will become purified by the internal lustration of God; day by day his mortal frame, shedding its earthly elements, will become in very truth the Temple of the Holy Ghost. Day by day matter is replaced by Spirit, the human by the divine; ultimately the change will be complete; God manifest in flesh will be his name." That would be celestial magick plus glitter, celestial magick is prayer, and it works because when people believe something they add power to it, but opposing beliefs will take power away, "energy flows where attention goes" "Does anyone else read this and starting thinking to themselves, "yadda yadda yadda"?" *raises hand* too glittery. "You don't have to be Wiccan or Pagan to practice magick. There are plenty of occultic Christians or Christian Wiccans and plenty of other tribal or any other religions around the world." indeed, and as I said, there are people who don't acknowledge a supreme being who still believe in magick "It's funny how people explain things. For example, in this thread, Dbizket explains, "whenever you manipulate energy for TK or whatever you're doing, you're really casting spells." But for me, I see the opposite. Whenever you do magick, you're really doing psionics plus a bunch of other useless garbage." ritual magick anyway, direct magick works superbly. "..in the banishing ritual of the pentagram we not only command the demons to depart, but invoke the Archangels and their hosts to act as guardians of the Circle during our pre-occupation with the ceremony proper." or you could just make a shield. |
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| Posted on Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:25 pm | |||||
Jhazared
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 |
For the sake of pedantry: gods and dieties are the same thing. However, in colloquial English, "God" refers to a specific diety, thus, "Gods" is a grammatical error in addition to a redundancy. |
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| Posted on Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:47 pm | |||||
mattz1010
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 |
Peebs, you took the words right out of my mouth.
Including your introduction to psi, and your raising. On another note, I have a friend, who is atheist. We don't really have terms, she called it magic, I called it psi... Who gives a fuck? It's the same thing. If you're more of a religious person...go for magic(k), you'll find more comfort in it. If you're non-religious, or science-oriented...go for psi. Regardless: The end result is the same. ..well, that was basically Peebs post, but I was going to say this before I fully read the thread anyways. Peebs is just good at articulating to the fullest extent, while I am not. |
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| Posted on Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:59 pm | |||||
Supersayainsith
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 |
"Magic" is either Demonic activity or the use of Psi, plain and simple. That's what I believe anyway so don't flame me for it. | ||||
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