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Is Psi "magick" for the non-religious?

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Posted on Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:25 pm

randywm

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 510

No, magic is like casting spells and using different things to conjuer energies.

Posted on Sun Jun 18, 2006 4:35 pm

The_Artful_Dodger

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 143

On the very, very, very, very, very, superficial surface of it. Its like saying Alchemy is about turning lead to gold, or that witches are satan's bumchums

(well maybe not quite that)

Posted on Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:25 pm

WhiteRaven

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 343

you don't have to use the "k" if you don't want to dodger.

"From what ive read of Osman Spare and chaos magics they followed the tradition of the true will more closely. - But again they went a bit on the nutty side."

Whoever invented chaos magick apparently didn't understand logic, their basic statement:

Nothing is True all is permitted

the text in bold is nonsense, because if nothing is true, then the statement that nothing is true is false, but that judgement would also be untrue due to the fact that nothing is true, and so on into the neverending void of ultimate stupidity.

"But again they went a bit on the nutty side."

you can say that again.

"Originally Hermetic and Thelemic traditions were (this is my opinion) based on the True Will in its rawest form, as is or was early psionics, in time, as with all of these practices, the rise of ritual will lead to the same stagnation of thought etc. I hope you see my point - early magic(k)al traditions (well the ones that involved the True Will) are actually almost exactly like psionics, but in time became tainted by blahdeblahdeblah.... "

direct magick is totally agnostic to anything except it's own practices, direct magicians use the their will and focus it on energy, and NOTHING else, but even direct magick has many different variations, Tomekeeper's style, for instance, has 14 (SYMBOLIC!!) energy types, each one doing a different task, but some forms just take the garbage out and practice what's left, actually Thelema is better than Chaos Magick if only because it doesn't leave big holes in what causes the result, the only use I can see for chaos magic is the gnostic principles around which it is VERY loosely based. If you wanted to seperate the wheat from the chaff you would have a TREMENDOUS pile of chaff and little else, I currently am trying to find Non-suicidal Non-drug abuse gnosis, and if anyone wants to throw me a bone with that I'd be ever so grateful.

here is an example of a chaos ritual:

[quote]Discordian Hand Grenade
There are certain areas of our society which are just a bit too uptight, here's and easy way to spice things up

By Frater O. S.
Posted Saturday, July 31, 2004

To the best of my knowledge this is an original spell I came up with the other day.

There are certain areas of our society which are just a bit too uptight, here's and easy way to spice things up:

Go to the Store and purchase some "Golden Delicious" Apples. Write or carve the name Kallisti onto each one while saying:

"Someone's missing from the party,
was the card lost in the mail?
golden present to the beauty,
rigid order sure to fail!
Hail discordia!"

Now then place, lob, roll, fling or set the newly made grenade in your chosen location and let the fun commence! (note: property damage is neither suggested or implied in this placement of the grenades, you choose that method you take the consequences.) Suggested locales would be: Government offices, some businesses, places of "organized religion," etc.[quote]

so all we have to do is throw an apple and we get awesomeness? I think somethings missing here, like... oh yeah, what would cause an apple to have ANY MAGICAL PROPERTIES?!

yeesh. here's another:

Quote:

Morning Ritual
A Ritual for Surviving the Morning

By rlb779
Posted Saturday, July 31, 2004

My ritual is performed by doing the following; (Note it only works if you live with some one else, preferably some one not as groggy as you in the morning and someone who gives good conversation or talks about something that interests you.)

1) Wake up.
2) Drink some cold liquid, something sweet, like orange juice.
3) Cook some breakfast food. It gets your mind off of how groggy and sluggish you feel. (optional)
4) If you partner(s) are awake and are in the same room as you, then talk to them, about anything you want, preferably a positive or interesting subject.
5) More you talk (and better the conversation gets), the less groggy you will feel, and you will feel better. You will feel some positive energy, inside of you and it will grow.
6) Stop when you feel better and more alert.
7) Enjoy the rest of your day

now I could be wrong, but... I DON'T THINK THAT'S MAGIC! it looks like a phenomenon called "talking to people you like makes you feel better, and drinking cold things wakes you up."

Rituals be here I should warn that, no one underage should stray from that part of the site... Well, I mean, you can, I really can't stop you, but you might get in trouble... yeah...

Posted on Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:27 pm

Peebrain

Site Admin
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 716

I really don't think these are the best forums to be debating over what magick is, and who is looney in the magick world.

PsiPog is a site that focuses on psionics. If you want to get into magick discussion, that has no connection to psionics, then do it in PM or on a magick forum.

~Sean

Posted on Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:20 am

The_Artful_Dodger

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 143

We may have strayed abit, but largely we've been discussing its relevance to psionics - which i reckon is pretty important in context - because of the the similarity betwen psionics and early magical practice looking at them and the links across the two is a good way to understand where this movement or whatever will end up in time.

Apologies nonetheless - its very rare that you can actually discuss magic(shudders k) with poeple who a) know SOMETHING about it and b) dont flip out if they dont agree with you - its been fun

i have one question actually - magiv has all these big writers etc. who for better or for worse furthered the practice - does psionics have its Crowley or Osman Spare?

+ I agree with you fully White Raven except on the chaos magic bit - I personally have no end of fun playing with the Nothing is True line - the philosophy of it is great, and because of the basis of chaos magic it does make perfect sense. Chaos magic deals with the definition of reality, Nothing is True is relevant because they believe that reality is flase and can be shaped byt the true well - if reality is everything then nothing of it is true - but thats just me!

I flee before peebs bites my head off/ the topic is locked/ Osman spare rises from the grave pissed off/ i get late for school!

toodles

Posted on Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:36 pm

Niushirra

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 299

Actually you guys, it's all just tricking your subconscious into doing SOMETHING that ends up with what we call psi.

Posted on Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:12 pm

JKT

Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 137

I havn't read all this so sorry if my post is already mentioned or coverd but PSI is not like magick because magick is not really belivable like wishes and shit and psi is much much more beliveable as it is your energy.

Posted on Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:04 pm

Ebonknowledge

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 57

I have been studying magick for 2 years, and first off let me state that MAGICK DOES NOT NEED TO BE RELIGIOUS(I am an atheist), and all you wiccas can blow me, sorry to be so offensive just I can't stand misguidedness... My comparision between Psi and magick is that magick has the potential to alter the future and bring about minor changes in many things, while psi can only directly effect something here and now. The difference between using it is that psi is more pure willpower and tricking you mind in a purly mental way, but magick uses physical rituals to create psychodrama and control your mind and do things(because deep down all humans believe,want to believe, or understand what magic can do from childhood),oh and some of the magick that calls on gods to do things is only psychodrama you don't need "belief" for more than a couple of minutes... Oh and WhiteRaven retards do write books on magick as much as there are fluff bunnies in this forum... So knowing what is possible and what is fluff you have to study it long enough to be able to tell. Any more questions?

Posted on Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:01 am

WhiteRaven

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 343

but psi is not bound by the here and now, I've used it to force the odds on gameshows, micro-TK, or chance manipulation+Retro-TK

Posted on Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:15 pm

Ebonknowledge

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 57

Yeah that's true, magick is usually used to affect the future, I know some magicans that work with psionics and they call it "Energy Work". And actually thats how I found this site someone said they had good techiques for making psi-balls and contructs Wink

Oh and the chaos magick statement it says "Nothing is True" because they believe life has no purpose, and they strive to become so good at magick as to reincarnate over and over again, and the "All is Permitted" means that you are supposed to choose your own purpose in life and follow it... until you die and come back,

Note: I was just stating chaos magicks philosophy, I do not intend to get into a debate about their beliefs at all I was merely interpretting what their moto means since it was brought up a few posts ago...

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