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OBEing Q
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OBEing Q on Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:18 pm

cjay

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 28

When you OBE are you really out side your body or is it just in your "mind" your out your body? (possibly in a similar diminsion)

I question because Ive read some people say your not really outside your body.
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Posted on Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:02 pm

arzhul

Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 43

This is a highly debated question, but both are possible in my opinions but just different names.. lucid dreams for ''obes'' that are in your head and OBE'S for those who are outside.. There was an experiment where an OBER was to go in the other room where numbers were laid on paper and they had to figure out the numbers.. Some were successful and others not.
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Posted on Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:34 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Well, I have to say that it's fake. I do not believe in OBEs. I've read some Miss Z stuff, Monroe, "medical evidence", etc. I just simply don't believe in OBEs. Hell, I've even had one or two myself... but it was just a feeling. I think one of those (I've had maybe three in the past short while) was a dream.

These discussions always end up the same though. I'll just say this too: I don't believe in spirits/ghosts/souls/whatever, I don't believe the mind is not a physical thing, and... well... a lot of other things to put it simply.
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Posted on Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:38 pm

Redifin

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 56

OBE's are dreams. NDE's are not.
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:55 am

slowboy

Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 15

DanielH wrote:
Well, I have to say that it's fake. I do not believe in OBEs. I've read some Miss Z stuff, Monroe, "medical evidence", etc. I just simply don't believe in OBEs. Hell, I've even had one or two myself... but it was just a feeling. I think one of those (I've had maybe three in the past short while) was a dream.

These discussions always end up the same though. I'll just say this too: I don't believe in spirits/ghosts/souls/whatever, I don't believe the mind is not a physical thing, and... well... a lot of other things to put it simply.


Then why are you in this forum?? Question
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:18 am

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

1) This forum is called "Dream Phenomenon"... not "OBE Phenomenon"... so... that's one thing
2) I like to discuss these things
3) I'm an op so I have to come around anyway

Do I need to explain myself any more?
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:31 am

MikeV

Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 402

I have had many OBE's and when i come out of body i have the exact same shape as my physical body, i also see my physical body still lying there. So my answer would be yes from my experience you do actually leave your body.
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:48 am

infected

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 104

Redifin wrote:
OBE's are dreams. NDE's are not.

Oh no no no my friend this is where you're wrong OBE is definately not a dream. For one thing, even in the most lucid dream your mind will not be 100% awake, whilst when out of body you are completely and totally conscious and you can put your focus pretty much where you want to. And besides, NDE usually refers to OBE.

Chuck Norris guy wrote:
Well, I have to say that it's fake. I do not believe in OBEs. I've read some Miss Z stuff, Monroe, "medical evidence", etc. I just simply don't believe in OBEs. Hell, I've even had one or two myself... but it was just a feeling. I think one of those (I've had maybe three in the past short while) was a dream.

These discussions always end up the same though. I'll just say this too: I don't believe in spirits/ghosts/souls/whatever, I don't believe the mind is not a physical thing, and... well... a lot of other things to put it simply.

Very Happy

I just don't get this ... you had one or two OBEs yet you still don't believe in them? I seriously doubt you had an OBE because usually when a person experiences this first-hand it convinces them quite enough.
Well anyways its your life I won't tell you what to think Smile.

And about the topic ... yes I'm quite sure that you really are outside your body. I have no proof or scientific explanation, I just feel that way.

peace ?
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:27 am

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Quote:
Oh no no no my friend this is where you're wrong OBE is definately not a dream. For one thing, even in the most lucid dream your mind will not be 100% awake, whilst when out of body you are completely and totally conscious and you can put your focus pretty much where you want to. And besides, NDE usually refers to OBE.


- infected

Quote:
I agree. OBEs are not just dreams. They're all hallucinations, an over active imagination, trying too much to believe, etc.

I just don't get this ... you had one or two OBEs yet you still don't believe in them? I seriously doubt you had an OBE because usually when a person experiences this first-hand it convinces them quite enough.
Well anyways its your life I won't tell you what to think Smile.

And about the topic ... yes I'm quite sure that you really are outside your body. I have no proof or scientific explanation, I just feel that way.


- infected

That's something I don't understand. We've already found the part of the brain that gives the OBE feeling. We've stimulated it before in people and it always causes the feeling of an OBE. I know that the brain is responsible.... why would I believe my body is leaving when it's already been explained so nicely?

Hell... I guess you believe that people who hallucinate for whatever reason should believe in what they see, huh? Sorry, but I know that there's not two of everything even though I sometimes see that when I drink way too much. I know those white dots I see whenever I get hit in the head aren't really there. But I guess you think they are?
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:45 am

infected

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 104

Hmm ... part of the brain that gives the OBE feeling? I'd like to see some links to back up that theory.

Quote:
Hell... I guess you believe that people who hallucinate for whatever reason should believe in what they see, huh?

Well that's a debate you and I could go forever I'm afraid Very Happy. It depends on the drug that you've taken (or your psychotic state that's making you hallucinate), but yes most of them are not coming from your own mind or subconsciousness. And if you see something that damn well should mean it's real, shouldn't it? Anyways that depends on your definition of "real".

My opinion: we don't have a clue what's going on around us. We perceive about 3% of light spectrum and about the same percentage of sound spectrum. Our brains need about 10% of their size for a normal human life. We are still too primitive and foolish to make a statement of how extraordinary things happen, why they happen and what's the point of them happening. We, my friend, are a dumb race. And we shall continue to be untill we develop spiritually. Then we won't need any knowledge really - we will become one with knowledge. The true one Wink.

peace ?
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:34 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

These talk about the same woman:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/09/19/coolsc.outofbody/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2266740.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn2819

You probably can't view this one, but it's the more scientific article detailing all that jazz:
http://www.nature.com/news/2002/020916/full/020916-8.html;jsessionid=F226AF5F23E3D4564B98FCFF57D08655

There are others, but hers is well documented. Look it up.
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:31 pm

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

Well, just for the sake of argument...

The fact that scientists may have located which part of the brain causes OBE's doesn't disprove that some part of you is leaving your body. It could be a switch to activate that action, throwing whatever part of the consciousness that percieves outside the body out of it.

In my opinion, there is far too much evidence for OOBE's to write them off as "just a feeling" or "fake". Too many cases have been reported where people have sucessfully percieved things that they could not normally have seen. I admit, that a great many of these are not scientifically documented, but a few are. I wish that whatever scientist Monroe worked with had posted the results on the internet, but he was probably dead by the time the internet existed anyways.

I think at this point, whatever you believe is your personal choice, and that neither is exactly wrong, but not on the "centerstage" of the scientifc community. They may very well prove it one way or another, but at this point, its still not proven/disproven to my satisfaction.
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:43 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Quote:
The fact that scientists may have located which part of the brain causes OBE's doesn't disprove that some part of you is leaving your body. It could be a switch to activate that action, throwing whatever part of the consciousness that percieves outside the body out of it.

In my opinion, there is far too much evidence for OOBE's to write them off as "just a feeling" or "fake". Too many cases have been reported where people have sucessfully percieved things that they could not normally have seen. I admit, that a great many of these are not scientifically documented, but a few are. I wish that whatever scientist Monroe worked with had posted the results on the internet, but he was probably dead by the time the internet existed anyways.

I think at this point, whatever you believe is your personal choice, and that neither is exactly wrong, but not on the "centerstage" of the scientifc community. They may very well prove it one way or another, but at this point, its still not proven/disproven to my satisfaction.


- Mad_Hatter

Brain activity still goes on in the brain. It's just a feeling is all. Can you find anything solid saying otherwise?

Too much evidence? What do you mean? A few people saying that someone was able to see something they wouldn't be able to any other way? Funny how these lack good documentation.

Robert Monroe died in 1995. The internets were around at the time. His papers are pretty new... someone should post them online maybe? Go look for them for us, would you?
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:02 pm

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

DanielH wrote:

Robert Monroe died in 1995. The internets were around at the time. His papers are pretty new... someone should post them online maybe? Go look for them for us, would you?


I was referring to the scientist Monroe worked with. Anyways, I'll look, but you know as well as I the chances of finding them are slim. And as far as brain activity still going on in the brain, can you prove that more isn't going on outside of the brain? Perhaps the brain is , utilizing some other sense, allowing the consciousness to percieve outside of the physical body, then the fact that the brain is still working makes perfect sense.
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Posted on Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:05 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Quote:
I was referring to the scientist Monroe worked with. Anyways, I'll look, but you know as well as I the chances of finding them are slim. And as far as brain activity still going on in the brain, can you prove that more isn't going on outside of the brain? If you stop to consider that perhaps the brain is in some way allowing the consciousness to percieve outside of the physical body, then the fact that the brain is still working makes perfect sense. Like if the brain were using another sense that isn't usually tapped.


- Mad_Hatter

Of course stuff is still going on outside of the brain. The world does not stop turning too often. Do you mean with that one person? How do you suggest I do that?

What is the brain using to percieve the outside world? The eyes and ears? Be more specific please.
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