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Martial Arts... MORE THAN A SPORT
Poll: Martial Arts- MORE THAN SPORTS?
Yes- much more than sports
66%
66% [ 42 ]
Yes
14%
14% [ 9 ]
No
11%
11% [ 7 ]
No- they ARE sports.
1%
1% [ 1 ]
I don't want to get involved... Fear of being stabbed/shot for an incorrect answer.
6%
6% [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 63
Author Message
Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:41 am

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

I think Danial was saying he wanted an art that was effective from an earlier point in time.

Also, I'm not sure what is under debate here. What are you two arguing about?
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:06 am

freakinrican626

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 514

Quote:
I think Danial was saying he wanted an art that was effective from an earlier point in time.


That is basically what our debate comes down to; He wants to learn as fast and efficiently as possible and I refer taking my time. Not that either mindset is superior, each just has different advantages and disadvantages.

We were arguing about the effectiveness of Kung fu.

Quote:
Quotes exist so you can no who your talking too? I don't know if your talking to me or tlaking to some other random guy.


While I was writing that post you hadnt posted this quote yet:

Quote:

Martial arts to me is not a sport
not a way of life
not self defense

Just the most effective way to kill a man.

Sadly finding tha type of martial art and those type of moves and mythologies among all the watered down (for the masses OWN good) nonsense is quite hard.



Your post mine and so that's why everything kind of got confusing.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:24 am

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

Kung Fu isn't effective? That seems an odd claim to make. There are many arts that take many years to develop into a defense system.

Also, I'm hoping you didn't judge your entire impression of an art from just a few days of training. I would take at least a few weeks or a month or two before passing judgment like that.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:42 am

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

freakinrican626 wrote:
Well what's wrong with mastering a style? How does that sound like a bad style.


Nothing. But if you need to master a style before you can beat someone.... then something is very very wrong there.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:27 am

freakinrican626

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 514

Quote:
Nothing. But if you need to master a style before you can beat someone.... then something is very very wrong there.


Well if you say so.


Quote:

Kung Fu isn't effective? That seems an odd claim to make. There are many arts that take many years to develop into a defense system.

Also, I'm hoping you didn't judge your entire impression of an art from just a few days of training. I would take at least a few weeks or a month or two before passing judgment like that.




Is this directed towards Dan or me? lol. I take kung fu classes.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:39 am

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

At Dan. He said he didn't find it effective, and that he had taken a few classes. I was just saying I hope he didn't make a premature judgement.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:42 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Quote:
That is basically what our debate comes down to; He wants to learn as fast and efficiently as possible and I refer taking my time. Not that either mindset is superior, each just has different advantages and disadvantages.




So, you believe that people should only be able to defend themselves after twenty years of practice? Or do you think they should be able to defend themselves after a few weeks, months, or a year or two at most... and then be able to defend themselves for another twenty years. Which do you think makes the most sense?

The inside thing was: Are you one of the people that understands?

Quote:
Well if you say so.


- freakinrican626

You don't find it a bit odd that you'd need to practice twenty years to be able to protect yourself and or fight other people?

So should people think: "Fuck defending myself now and the rest of my life... I'll just start practicing something that will only work well once I master it in some twenty or more years"?

Quote:
Kung Fu isn't effective? That seems an odd claim to make. There are many arts that take many years to develop into a defense system.


- Mad_Hatter

That depends on the style and how you train it. Generally? No. It's not. Have you seen how they fight? It's rarley good...

Quote:
Also, I'm hoping you didn't judge your entire impression of an art from just a few days of training. I would take at least a few weeks or a month or two before passing judgment like that.


- Mad_Hatter

Research and some common sense/knowledge of fighting.

You guys posted stuff while I was posting before and I didn't notice it Razz
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:45 pm

neveza

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 1147

I understand DanielH. He's saying that something shouldn't take you over years of practice to be worthy enough to be used for defense. Unlike Boxing or Jeet Kune Do, You could take a few lessons or read a book and under a month, you could have the basic skill to successfully take someone down. A great martial Arts should increase effectiveness over years of practice, not start becoming effective.

That's probably what Dan finds to be a flaw in Kung Fu.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:50 pm

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

In my case of aikido, everything is defensive. Almost every technique involves entering, blending, and redirecting. You can't just "do" those after a few practices or by reading a book. You need practice, lots of it. You need the coordination to enter in the right place, the right time, and without getting hit. Once you have those, you can finish almost any fight in one move.

However, this may not be what Danial was reffering to, becuase these things probably take about two years of semi-serious to serious practice to get well enough to use, as opposed to 20.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:01 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Mad_Hatter wrote:
In my case of aikido, everything is defensive. Almost every technique involves entering, blending, and redirecting. You can't just "do" those after a few practices or by reading a book. You need practice, lots of it. You need the coordination to enter in the right place, the right time, and without getting hit. Once you have those, you can finish almost any fight in one move.

However, this may not be what Danial was reffering to, becuase these things probably take about two years of semi-serious to serious practice to get well enough to use, as opposed to 20.


- Mad_Hatter

Finish a fight with one blow against who?
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:09 pm

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

I didn't say blow, I said move. All of aikido's techniques end with a throw or a pin. You can make them as nasty as you want. You can throw somebody on their head, break their wrist, dislocate their elbow, all at once.

Or you can pin them and do a lot of that stuff too.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:02 pm

freakinrican626

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 514

Okay so I'm kind of tired of going back and fourth with you Dan.

You stick to what you think is right and I'll stick to mine.
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Posted on Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:46 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Mad_Hatter wrote:
I didn't say blow, I said move. All of aikido's techniques end with a throw or a pin. You can make them as nasty as you want. You can throw somebody on their head, break their wrist, dislocate their elbow, all at once.

Or you can pin them and do a lot of that stuff too.


I call everything a blow. BJJ/Judo are like that... trained fighters don't generally go down so simply though,
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Posted on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:22 am

Mad_Hatter

Joined: 19 Feb 2006
Posts: 393

Yeah, but most of the time you won't be fighting trained fighters. And most of the throws are nasty, and some you can make near impossible to soften. Namely the land on your head one.
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Posted on Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:26 am

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Mad_Hatter wrote:
Yeah, but most of the time you won't be fighting trained fighters. And most of the throws are nasty, and some you can make near impossible to soften. Namely the land on your head one.


I'd like to train something that works on everyone. Not just trained or untrained people.
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