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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:48 am | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MikeV
Joined: 02 Apr 2006 |
You really gave him what he deserved JoeT. I dispise people like this who refuse to accept that they are wrong i sure hope kief will read this, and i hope he understands what kind of person others think he is. mabye he'll change, or mabye he'll be stuck up. Time will tell. I'm sorry to hear about your family difficaulties, all the best. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:53 am | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Apollo
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
JoeT, that was a great PWNing but Kief is going to respond in 5 posts in a row all with quotes and it will run for 5 pages now. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:55 am | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JoeT
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Hello Apollo,
I believe my post was more towards helping Kief rather than "pwning" him  . However, I'm willing to participate in any conversation or debate with him based on my work or PK in general.
Take care. - JoeT |
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:28 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Apollo
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
heh. stick with PWNing him  . 
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:11 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tblake
Joined: 05 Jun 2006 |
I've gonna put in my opinions here. I know psychokinesis is real. How? I practice it everyday, well most days anyway. However, you must remember that all media on the web could easily be fake. JoeT, I've watched your book video and cell phone video. I could offer a disprovement thesis for each.
Book: You would cut out of the center of the book and leaving the center and back cover intact. You would place a magnet in the center of the book and have another magnet under the table causing the magnet above the table to move. The cell phone is a little more difficult to disprove. I believe the whole thing could be manipulated using a program such as photoshop. JUST LIKE 100% of all media. I do believe your videos are genuine. But, you need to keep in mind, unless a person sees it in person, they can't be confindent it is real. So hopefully you will understand where these individual's skeptism(SP?) comes from. |
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:48 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
sgtpsion
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 |
JoeT: Brilliant post, exactly the kind of advice Kief needs to point him in the right direction. Massive Props!
(There is more rejoicing in Heaven over the one sinner who repents...) Flip: I don't think the motion is such that it would be caused by the camera moving, but I don't think it's evidence of fraud in the video either. I'm thinking that the odd motion is caused by either tricks of the light, or slight anomalies in the video data. Nothing too important, at any rate. He moved the remote a fair bit, in such a way that it would've been hard to fake, so I don't think it makes a difference. |
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:44 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Apollo
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
i have heard people say that JoeT's videos are fake because when he moves things, it kind of jabs away and on the psiwheel, it just moves. Well, that is 100% real. I have done/do PK and that is exactly how it is when moving an object that is not balanced on something else. Why would somebody who already has a big reputation go through the trouble of cutting out the inside of a book (a good book at that) or editing it on photoshop? I believe 100% that JoeT's videos are pure real. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Posted on Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:50 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
pyroman098
Joined: 13 Jan 2006 |
i just read JoeT's entire post....WOW, that was really long!!!! whenever i meet someone like keif in real life i always just feel like smashing their face in... 
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| Posted on Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:03 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Draken_
Joined: 11 Jun 2006 |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:52 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kief
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 |
"Your first mistake was to say that my video clips are faked and an illusion without showing any proof aside from your horrible skeptical attitude."
HAHAHA horrible attitude. What a pile of crap. It is up to you to provide proof for your claims of paranormal ability. I see nothing in those videos that cannot be faked easily, I have done it myself with my own videos and so haven't others. "The second mistake you made was making this comment at this time. I'm currently going through some family issues and I'm quite pissed off. So, I'll give this to you like you deserve." Your going to be sorry for it 
"Over the past few months I've seen you spread your ridiculous opinions based on Psychokinesis (PK)." Pointless ad hom directed at me. Whatever. "At one point you decided to make several fake videos trying to get the point across that anyone can fake them." I was also asked to make them. Especially because people said it couldn't be done. "However, you have yet to impress myself and the other staff members by this." That's ok, they weren't intended for you, but for some other people. "You love to spread your opinion stating "Psychokinesis (PK) is not real" yet you fail to realize that Psychokinesis (PK) has been tested and proven by scientific testing in the past." No it has not, such a claim is entirely without merit and scientific backing. Yet..... People will say that evolution isn't proven real? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA There are no reputable studies of telekinesis being demonstrated in any scientific journal or any public forum. "Since your unable to do your own research on Psychokinesis (PK), I'll be glad to give you an quick history lesson. Perhaps this will stop the spread of false, ignorant statements. You've finally stepped on my toes. Your mistake." Blah blah blah. I have done research all my life on psychokinesis ever since having witnessed it as a child. There is no scientific evidence for it occurring and definitely no evidence that it has anything to do with what you people call psionics. "The history of Psychokinesis (PK) dates back thousands of years where people wrote about how man could move objects without psychical force." Yea, that's called magick, or sorcery, miracles, or any other word you want to use. All such accounts are neither verified nor should they for any reason be taken literally or as anything more than exaggerations. "Parts of the bible speaks of Psychokinesis (PK) as well. The Egyptians sketched in drawings Psychokinesis (PK) as well as Gods who came down from the sky who had these amazing abilities." Stories and myths do not make something real. So all those Egyptian gods exist, and so doesn't hercules, he brought those pillars down on himself right? All those magicians casting fireballs, witches riding on brooms. Don't forget about all the vampires! Vlad, Countess Bathory, the list goes on and on. Cause like, Dracula, he could turn into a wolf and into mist. That's way better than just moving around some pens. "Psychokinesis (PK) has been documented throughout mankind?s history." And where is the real proof for this..........? I didn't think so. "However, it was not until modern times that humans started to scientifically test Psychokinesis (PK) existence. People such as Joseph Banks Rhine, Nina Kulagina, Helmut Schmidt, Robert Jahn, Dean Radin etc, all contributed to the study of Psychokinesis (PK). Allow me to give you some information based on these people and organizations that they worked with." Yea, I've seen all this, and none of it in any way is credible, save for studies done by the PEAR institute, whose studies do not confirm PK or psionics. "Joseph Banks Rhine: J.B Rhine is the founder of the Rhine Research Center. Joseph spent many years scientifically testing psychic functioning which included Psychokinesis (PK). His research alone made a permanent mark on the research of psychic functioning and is still regarded as hard evidence. He died in 1980." Regarded as hard evidence by who? Not scientists. The Rhine research center has no credible studies that are published in legitimate peer reviewed scientific journals. They have had no recent studies to come out that report any kind of significant finding for like 20 years or something. "Robert G. Jahn: Robert was the director of the Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab (PEAR). Robert and his associates performed and scientifically tested psychic functioning which included the study of Psychokinesis (PK)." This is the one credible and current organization who does up to date studies on the certain kinds of anomalous phenomena, but none of their studies veritably show that telekinesis, especially on a macro scale, like moving a pinwheel or larger object, is real. "Nina Kulagina: Nina was a Russian woman who actively participated in Psychokinesis (PK) experiments and studies performed by the Soviet government. Nina is best known for her unbelievable PK skills. Throughout several years of studies and experiments performed by Soviet scientist, Nina alone supplied scientist with factual/tested data on Psychokinesis (PK). The Soviets used Nina for many psychic related experiments." Unfortunately none of these studies can be verified by independent scientists here. Lots of junk science came out of the Soviet Union (and the United States) relating to psi-ops programs during the cold war. Much of it was just all bunk, made up by both sides to try and scare the other in the arms race. All such programs have been abandoned by both counties (no wonder - neither could get results). I have seen Nina's videos, and while they may be striking on the surface, what she does is nothing that any stage magician cannot do, for example, I have seen Criss Angel perform many similar and even more amazing feats. I myself have done and videotaped such events as well. Many magicians have gone into rooms surrounded by scientists and have done the same feats. Rather, they were fooled by the same feats. "Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research Lab: PEAR for short, was established at Princeton University in 1979 by Robert G. Jahn. PEAR spent several years providing solid scientific support for PK functioning as well as other psychic functioning." Your interpretation of PEAR's findings and what they mean is very different from the way it actually is. Their findings do not support any claim for telekinesis or psychokinesis. None of their findings have been published in a reputable mainstream scientific journal and the only real findings they possess are ones where they claim humans are influencing random number generators either consciously or un/sub consciously. Most paranormal research involves gathering lots of data and discarding the data one does not like. RNG?s are perfect for this, since all misses can be discarded and all the hits can be accrued and put forth as something significant, when the truth is, there are just as many, if not more, misses than hits. Not only that, but the influence of RNG?s by human consciousness does not support a claim for telekineitic, psychokinetic, or psionic phenomena. "Rhine Research Center Institute for Parapsychology: The Rhine institute has been operational since it's founder Joseph Banks Rhine founded it in 1962. When Joseph started this organization, he titled it Foundation for Research on the Nature of Man (FRNM) which in 1995 was changed to the Rhine Research Center Institute for Parapsychology in honor of the 100th anniversary of J. B. Rhine's birth." Again, the center has no significant studies that have made it into reputable journals. Instead they have had to create their own journals within which to publish their own findings. Not a very credible practice. If psionics is so established why isn?t it talked about in any real text books, or real scientific journals? Because the paranormal is neither established nor something that can readily be taken into a lab. "If you would like to learn more about these people or these organizations, please check the bottom of this page for the links that I've supplied." It's alright, I already know about these organizations extensively and how they have not found anything. "Now, I've only named a handful of names and organizations which helped support Psychokinesis (PK) existence through scientific research. There are hundred people, websites, organizations and communities worthy of mentioning however I'll leave that for you to research." All of them as worthless as the next unfortunately. "Your main problem is that you can't comprehend or accept that Psychokinesis (PK) is real and proven." Because IT ISN'T. That's not ?a problem?, it's not being deluded. "How dare you neglect scientific research and call yourself a skeptic." How dare you lie about scientific research and say anything to me pertaining to science. "You my friend are not a skeptic, you're a fool." Sure thing, whatever you want to say. Senseless ad homs do not help your case though. ?I've seen your fake video clips and you certainly did bring up a good point. Video clips can be easily faked.? Oh boy is this another ?any video can be faked? rant? I?m bored with you people and your senseless diatribes about why you don?t have proof for your claims. ?I'm sure people have faked videos and people will continue to.? Hahahahahaha? ?However, please do not neglect hard work. I have spent several years of my life studying and practicing Psychokinesis (PK).? So come down to my school and let?s see it happen. We can place controls, we can have plenty of credible persons observe the events and the findings can be published in a mainstream journal. ?Over the years, I have taught and lectured people in classrooms, telephone conversations, email, seminars and of course chat rooms based on the practice and existence of Psychokinesis (PK).? Yea and so hasn?t every charlatan and any other magician around. Or any preacher, faith healer, or guru. ?Excuse me for being upset when someone walks into a community where I am active in and says "Yeah, it's fake. Just an illusion".? Well, it is. Pinwheels moving are the result of heat. Many people have found this out, I myself have tried it after finding a website that shows this. Other people continue to delude themselves though and claim they are performing PK when they are moving a pen, or pinwheel, or straw, or something by heat or static electricity. Or they are just creating the illusion intentionally. ?That is not only disrespectful, it's foolish.? No it?s entirely justified and entirely needed. Critical thinking is neither foolish nor disrespectful. ?You're discussing your point of view in a community that is based on learning psychic functioning.? I have seen nothing that shows anyone here has psychic functioning, nor that psychic functioning can be learned. ?We welcome healthy skepticism with open arms. We have a section of our forum dedicated to skepticism. However, what we don't welcome is bad skepticism. What you are currently displaying is bad skepticism.? Ah here it comes. Of course, ?good/healthy? skepticism is when people agree with your claims, or do not examine your claims with a critical eye, and ?bad? skepticism is when they disagree with your claims and DO examine them critically. Too bad, you cannot define skepticism however you see fit in order to weed out skepticism that you do not like or that goes against your claims. Also, you people here DO NOT welcome skepticism with open arms. You do not even understand it and whenever anyone displays it they are immediately attacked with the same vapid and debunked arguments over and over. ?If you wish to call yourself a good skeptic, you need to understand what is a good skeptic really is. Allow me to share with you some traits of a good skeptic:? Here it comes again. I don't even know the point to responding to this. ?1) A good skeptic shares his or her opinion in an respectable manner.? Something which I have done, yet I have not been afforded the same courtesy. Oh well. ?2) A good skeptic puts in the time of research to fully understand their opponents argument.? Something you have not done apparently, especially using the organizations you have to try and back up claims of psionics and PK. ?3) Although persistent, a good skeptic allows other people to share their opinion without personally attacking that person.? Yes, I am routinely kind and courteous, yet attacked, even by mods. Such a shame, I thought I was going to find people who could do real things here. Oh well. ?4) A good skeptic knows when he or she is wrong.? Yes, you guys do have a real problem accepting when you are wrong and locking threads when that happens. ?Please try to comprehend what I'm saying.? I do, but what you are saying does not apply to me. ?You need to stop stereotyping another?s work without showing any probable cause or evidence to back up your statements.? You need to back up your work before you go around saying it?s credible, because I can make videos and do things that are much more impressive than anything anyone?s done on here. ?Don't look at something and say "Well, it's fake because I think it is" because that will get you nowhere in debates or conversations.? It?s fake until it?s proven it?s legitimate, which is where scientific controls come into play. I have asked but no one wishes to be tested under any sort of controls. I wonder why. ?As of now, I have no respect for you. I'm sure you've lost the respect of many others as well.? Some people online who can?t do anything get all pissed and attack me because they can?t prove their claims. Yea I really care. ?If you wish to gain my respect or others please learn how to be a good skeptic.? If you wish to gain my respect come down to my university and take the pepsi challenge. Any wacko can say they can do anything when it?s online. I would make no mention or claim to what I can do without being able to prove it to others. ?If you wish to deny another?s work, please come with something other than your opinion on the matter if you wish to state something as serious as "That isn't real".? It isn?t real until someone proves it is. You do not get the benefit of the doubt by doing magic tricks anyone can do, and moving paper with heat or by blowing on it. ?This rant slowly became a helpful small article. I guess I must have calmed down while I was writing this.? It?s too bad you didn?t take a day to read over it and any actual publications from the institutions you put so much credit in. ?However, the fact remains that you were disrespectful and your attitude towards Psychokinesis (PK) is absolutely ridiculous.? No, you were disrespectful. I have nothing against PK, just people who want to fake it and say they can do it, or say it is a scientifically proven phenomena. ?This is your warning, do not state accusations on my work unless you have probable cause and evidence.? The evidence is in the video. You have done nothing I cannot do nor any magician can do. There are no controls set up in your short videos, and on the whole they are simply not impressive. Any number of methods could be used, like a hole in the table, magnets, string. ?If I hear that you disrespect my work again, my attitude will change and you'll find yourself being lectured again.? Well why don?t you work harder to prove your claims rather than making a short video any 13 year old can do by looking up some magic tricks online. If you can really do what you say you can do then there are many researchers who are dying to find a person like you and document such abilities, since it would be the first such discovery of the kind and a groundbreaking one as well. |
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| Posted on Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:02 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kief
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 |
"Have you ever even attempted PK or anything? You can't come on here with no evidence."
Paranormal things that I have witnessed and/or done are far beyond anything people on here have claimed, nor do such things require practice. "And maybe you're a non." Maybe you are only human
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| Posted on Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:44 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bladeslinger
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 |
Well since half of that was irrelevant, I only read half of it....but Kief, it seems that you have broken my spirit in psionics so now I'm going to burn my psi wheel and commit seppuku from being so dishearted...Far thee well cruel world 
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| Posted on Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:05 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Damien
Joined: 28 May 2006 |
A lot of that was redundant. If you're gonna post an argument, don't repeat yourself so much. "Their findings can't be proven." "They have no credible studies." Blah blah blah. And why are you so against something that you've, apparently, seen in real life? How do we know you aren't lying? I mean, it's fake until proven real, right? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Posted on Sat Jun 17, 2006 10:20 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
randywm
Joined: 14 Jan 2006 |
debunked arguments? Certainly not debunked by you. You seem like the lazy researcher who doesnt actually do any researching. All you say that all these articles have been debunked. By who? How can you debunk something that is real. Thats like saying "The core of the Earth doesnt exist because credible people said that it doesnt". Just because people are credible doesnt make them right. They arent messiahs that know every little thing about life. You actually think Joe is going to fly to your school to give a TK demonstration? He doesnt have to prove anything to you. We know its real, so you dont even matter kief. Why we would devote years of time practicing it and get results? I dont get you kief. You argument is so two faced you have lost all credibility. You view is "Ive seen greater psionic things happen than performed on this site, but they arent real". Go play in traffic. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Posted on Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:28 pm | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JoeT
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Hello Kief,
I must say, I was expecting more. I thought that you would put up a good debate however this turned out to be nothing more than a waste of my time. If you choose to respond, please put more of an effort to this debate.
If you honestly do not believe that your attitude towards psionics isn't horrible, then you my friend are stupid. I would like you to reread your entire response as well as your previous posts and tell me that you haven?t been disrespectful.
Let me make one thing very clear, I have nothing to prove to you. I don't frankly give a shit what you think. If you wish to know something is real then put in the time that other members have and find out for yourself. If you do not wish to even try learning or practicing why are you here? Do you have little social life that arguing our statements is something to fill in the gap? I seriously think you need to rethink your life. Perhaps get a girlfriend or a new hobby.
Like I said, I was expecting a lot more. However, you have once again let me down. So, I am not sorry I'm quite pissed. You're just another kid with an argument. I've been talking to people like you for years. You're no different from the rest.
I don't recall anyone challenging you. Perhaps you would like to backup your statements by logs.
Yes, members of a community that I help manage. If you wish to spread your ridiculous opinions based on psionics in this community you're going to run into me.
You see, that is where you're wrong. Psychokinesis (PK) has been tested for many years and there has been documented proof that something abnormal is occurring. Whether it's an object moving or a light bulb shutting off. I strongly recommend that you do some research based on Russian scientific testing with supernatural abilities. There has been documented proof that Psychokinesis (PK) is real and the results show. Now, you may be asking yourself "If they know it works, why isn't it proven by scientific standards?" That is because if science cannot find out why it is working, then it can not be actually happening. We know it works, we just don't know how. Do some research, please. You're embarrassing yourself.
Obviously you haven't. If you had, you might have showed some intelligence and would have put up a better argument other than using the words "Blah, blah, blah".
Once again your lack of intelligence is breath taking. Like I've stated earlier, please do some actual research. You obviously have absolutely no idea what your talking about. You're making false statements, please stop.
I can certainly understand were you're coming from. I myself am skeptical with many stories from the bible or any supernatural early experience that has been documented. However, you're interpreting my statements incorrectly. My point to my statements above were to show you that psychokinesis has been documented in the past. We didn't watch a television show and start a community based on psychic abilities due to the fact that it's only a cool idea.
This was certainly a giggle. He could shape shift into a bat, not a wolf. I'm not even a fan of Dracula type movies and even I know that. Do some research. You're embarrassing yourself once again .
Like I've stated earlier, science cannot confirm that psychokinesis is real due to the fact that science cannot (as of now) find out how it's working. Scientific testing has proven that psychokinesis works, we just can't find out how and that is why it is still in the mystery book.
J.B. Rhine was a scientist. He was a man who followed the same scientific protocols as you claim to. He was a very intelligent man who spent many years dedicated to studying the powers of the human mind. Please do not neglect that, he was a scientist and he worked with other scientist as well. Once again I must ask you do some research before attempting to state anything.
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) is certainly a creditable organization. They have done some amazing research based on psychic abilities. However, you're once again wrong about their involvement wish psychokinesis. PEAR has solid research/testing based on psychokinesis. Since you're obviously unable to do your own research, allow me to offer you a link: http://skepdic.com/pear.html.
That is your opinion. However, there has been many documented testing based on PK as well as other psionic related abilities that shows solid proof that PK as well as other abilities are real. Try to remember that our government found out that the Soviet were able to effectively gain information about anything regardless of space, time or shielding using remote viewing. Please don't neglect that with Soviet knowledge, we began to use psychic abilities to benefit our government. All arguments aside, you are a member of this community and therefore I am obligated to help you with psionics as well as research. If you're interested in learning more about Soviet testing with psychic abilities, please visit your local book store and look for Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Shroeder. It's an absolutely great book. I recommend it for further study.
Please do not insult scientist. You're making them sound like little children surrounding a magic trick like school kids at a birthday party. You give them no credit, they were scientist that studied psychokinesis. I'm sure they took the necessary precautions before allowing some random woman to perform such an event as moving matter using only the mind on camera.
The Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research (PEAR) have tested psychokinesis using more than one method of testing. In some testing situations, they would use a participant and try to move an object using nothing but the mind then run more test using generators. Now, although they do not spend as much time devoted to psychokinesis, that does not mean that previous testing are non-creditable. PEAR has planned more psychokinesis testing for the future. Please visit their home page at http://www.princeton.edu/~pear/ for further information.
Once again you're discrediting scientific testing. Perhaps you haven't been informed but scientist document all information gathered when testing something. Scientific testing is a protocol that all scientist must follow in order to state their case to the scientific community. In that protocol scientist document all events/information gathered by testing. I find it funny that you believe that scientist can easily throw away documented testing because they don't like the results that came with it. You're under the belief that all psychokinesis related testing have the majority of fails rather than success. Well, that's science for you. Science is all about patience. Scientist cannot expect testing something without faults and failures. With testing psychokinesis, scientist have had it's failures and success. However, those few success mean something. They mean that psychokinesis or any study may be in fact real and with further study/testing. This applies to every study, not just psychic related testing.
I can't even tell you how disrespectful that statement is to the scientist who focus their study towards psychic related research. You basically called their research/documented information bullshit and made up. Which is entirely disrespectful. You're making your own opinions and grouping your opinions with conspiracies that you've thought of in your head. Grow up, if you wish to make that kind of statement you better show some evidence other than accusations.
Scientist have researched and tested psychic abilities and will continue to research and test for further understanding. There are documented testing that show psychokinesis working. There are documented testing that supports psychokinesis. However, testing to see if this ability is real is not enough for science. Psychokinesis cannot be given the term "real" by the scientific community without their full understanding on how it's operated. Until then, we have to count on further research. The term "We know it works, we just don't know how" is not enough for the scientific community and that is certainly understandable.
Obviously not. I'm basically holding your hand through out this debate. You're bringing nothing to the table aside from your own personal opinion. Once again, you're not impressing me.
If that is your attitude than you have absolutely know right to call yourself a skeptic. You're just a fool who's sticking to his opinion by avoiding the facts. It's funny how you believe that your attitude towards psionics is healthy, it certainly is not. If you wish to call yourself a skeptic then you have to be willing to research your opponents opinions.
Psychokinesis is proven to work, it's not proven by the scientific community due to the fact that science does not know how psychokinesis is fully operated. Don't disregard scientific testing.
I haven't lied through out this entire debate. All of my statements come from research. You're portraying your personal opinion as facts. When it's not, you're not putting up a good argument. You're embarrassing yourself.
Like I've stated earlier, I have nothing to prove to you. However, I'll certainly give you a chance to see if I'm a liar or not. I'll be more than happy to meet you in person and perform psychokinesis. I've said that to all of my skeptics and I will continue to. Send me a private message if you want to set any meeting up.
If you're serious about that, please inform me in PM. I've worked with college professors in the past and I'm currently working with a friend who's a scientist based on psionics. I'll be more than happy to set something up this summer.
You misunderstood my statement. I've taught students how to learn psychokinesis, I haven't performed magic tricks. The main difference between me and others is that I'm willing to help others learn psychokinesis as well as many other psionic related abilities. That goes for people that I have arguments with, if you wish to learn psychokinesis, then let me know. I'll be more than happy to give you a helping hand. Perhaps with your own experience you'll be able to see our point of view.
I'm sure people have encountered that problem when dealing with psychokinesis. Under the belief that they are accomplishing psychokinesis when in actuality they aren't. However, that can be avoided by intelligent testing. Meaning, shielding an object and standing further away from it. Also known as long distance PK.
You're absolutely correct. Critical thinking is very intelligent. However, there is a difference between critical thinking and being pure narrow minded. Also, you're under the belief that your sharing your opinion in a respectable manner when in actuality you aren't. It's alright be critical, just have some respect for others.
Perhaps you would like to stop by the chat room. We have many intelligent discussions based on psionic related issues. We also have a practice room where members have the opportunity to practice psionics with each other. I'm more than willing to practice with you. Stop by the chat and see if were all role playing or not. I'll be there  .
Skepticism is welcome here. We have a thread where there are many discussions based on skeptical opinions. I believe we've had many great discussions based on skepticism and psionics. If you feel that your being attacked by another member due to your beliefs, then please inform myself or another moderator. We will set things right and help with the discussion. I would like to believe that this debate is beneficial to yourself and to other members. We're currently exchanging our point of views based on psychokinesis. I believe that this is beneficial to everyone because it allows each other to understand were each side is coming from making it an enjoyable learning experience.
That my friend is ridicules. Although I have spoken my opinion on this manner is an blunt manner, I have not crossed the line of being disrespectful.
This conversation showed two things. Those two things are; you spread your opinion and offer it as factual information and that you obviously have no idea what your talking about. Like I said, you have not put up a good argument.
That is another ridiculous accusation. I have yet to see another mod insult you for sharing your opinion in an respectable manner. However, if you insult another regardless of levels, they'll attack back. It's human nature.
We certainly do not. I promise you that we will continue this debate and this topic will not be locked if you continue to follow the rules. Once you break our rules, I am obligated to lock this thread.
Like I've stated in the past, anyone can fake videos. I can completely understand that statement and respect it. However, I can honestly state that I do not fake any of my material. I have taught many members how to learn psychokinesis online and in a class room. If you want to prove me wrong then try to learn psychokinesis. I am willing to help guide you as long as your willing to learn. I believe that if you have an experience with psychokinesis it will change your whole perspective on it.
I can understand that. I am willing to meet with you and participate in testing. I have the whole summer to look forward to, why not help a school with research. I have participated in testing in the past with a few friends using certain experiment, I find it enjoyable. Some of the PsiPog staff have seen me show results with psionics in the past, feel free to ask them about it. It isn?t real until someone proves it is. You do not get the benefit of the doubt by doing magic tricks anyone can do, and moving paper with heat or by blowing on it. That is once again your opinion on the matter. Can you actually say that you know for sure that I am not moving the object using nothing but the mind? No. It's all opinions until further research is done.
Once again, I do not lie. Although one could say that I am, it's only an opinion until it's proven. You're neglecting once again scientific testing and that is where your loosing this debate. We know that psychokinesis is not proven by scientific standards however, it's certainly proven to work in testing. There have been many documented success with psychokinesis.
You're not going to be able to know until you see first hand. Which is fine, the majority of people are like that. "I'll believe it when I see it" is a quote that comes to mind. Like I said, we can make arrangements in PM. However, that's only if the school is involved. I am not going to meet with you, move a book and call it a day. I'm sure that's understandable.
Ah, you're helping me with my argument. If I show you or scientist that I can accomplish psychokinesis, does that make it real? Maybe to you or the scientist that participated in the experiments but to the science community, it's just another documented case. Thank you for that. Take care. - JoeT |
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