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| Intelligence- Humankind’s Greatest Flaw? | |||||||||
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| Posted on Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:44 pm | |||||||||
somefatguy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
Interesting comment. But humans are so far apart that it could never happen. We will all die before that... I think you are right. Love may just be the emotion that can save us. Felix is the perfect example of a human who will not let himself connect with other humans. (no offense Felix, correct me if I'm wrong, it just seems that way...) |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:56 am | |||||||||
Felix_the_Cat
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 |
No offense taken, because you are wrong. Very wrong.
For one, I'm a natural empath. That's like the very definition of connecting with other humans! 
It's OK though, judging people over the Internet is difficult. |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:36 pm | |||||||||
somefatguy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
Heh, okay. |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:58 pm | |||||||||
Lleu
Joined: 29 Apr 2006 |
I don't think so. Only stale intelligence, or knowing stuff, but having a lack of wonder. Really, would there be so many environmental problems if everyone was so in awe of the complexity of it to harm it? I think not.
Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horrendous_Space_Kablooie |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:53 pm | |||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
Nice post SFG.
Ask yourself: What is causing my hate towards intelligence? You will see that the cause is intelligence itself. And the tool which will bring you to that answer and clarity is intelligence as well. So don't hate it for that matter. Observe it and acknowledge it. Then deal with it in any which way that you think will benefit you and others most. I think there are many levels and ways for intelligence to express itself. It can be expressed on the level of wisdom and transpersonal interaction. (interaction that transcends the sense of individualness and ego.) And yes, intelligence can cause harm to your body, your mental body, your emotional body and other people. That does not make it a bad thing though; it remains a tool that can be used in any which way you choose. Therefore, it is not intelligence itself that is the cause of suffering and the like, but the way we express our intelligence and use it towards the outside world and our inner selves. Intelligence itself cannot be discriminated as something good or bad in my eyes. Thoughts are mostly responsible for our actions and the harm we cause ourselves and others. The way I see it is that thoughts are not intelligence, intelligence is is something higher, something that lies at the base of our thoughts. It is something our thoughts interact with and get influenced and shaped by. Emotions are not bad either. Emotions are the result of thoughts and intelligence. You think something about something, and your body reacts to it by giving off a certain reaction, sensation. This is the emotion. Emotions simply are results of our thinking (and intelligence for some part, in a sense). There are sensations beyond bodily emotions, and they are rarely experienced. Then we would indeed be talking about 'universal love'. Compassion, honest compassion without the aim for self-benefit, comes close to these transcending sensations. Emotions are just bodily reactions to our thoughts. IMO. Emotions are not independent sensations, they need a thought prior to manifesting. A way to simply proof this: Think about this: Something nasty happens to you, lets say you get a phone call by a hospitalist saying some close relative of yours is hit by a car and is now in the hospital. If you would just listen to the words of this hospital lady without thinking about the contents of what her words refer to, you would not experience any emotion regarding the relative. If you would not have a single thought at all, (imagine yourself being a zombie on that phone) while the lady tells you the bad news, you would physically hear the news, yet you would not get any emotion whatsoever. So it is not the situation that causes the emotion, but the thoughts formed by our intellect (not the perfect word to refer to the source that forms our thoughts IMO). The only way to change the emotional experience of any situation, is to change the underlying thoughts that created the emotion. And the only way to get in control over the creation of these thoughts, is by controlling the mind (<<better word in this scenario than intellect, for intellect is just a part of the mind). So if we want to master our thoughts>>emotions, and thus>>the way we interact and pollute, or enrichen the life around us, is by mastering the conditioned mind that automatically creates certain thoughts in certain situations that cause certain (unwanted?) emotions. These emotions cause us to react the way we do, because emotions are powerfull energies that seem very real and righteous in our eyes when they occur. But they are merely bodily reactions to our conditioned mind. So my point is, there is no right or wrong flaw in mankind, this is just the way it is. If we know the process and more importantly: the source of our individual creations (thoughts, emotions, actions etc.) we can learn to control it and better ourselves, improve our happiness and love and help the world become a better place. MA |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:06 pm | |||||||||
Tankdown
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 |
Question! Do you connect by giving love back? Its a two way connection, and if your not seflish at all...you wouldnt really need love back.
It depends how you look at it that makes it seems wonderful. Honestly I see the words "big bang" just as wonderful as the Horrendous Space Kablooie. I don't think this is stale intelligence at all, it may not be wonderful to some people standerds "now". But back then I think Georges Lemaître thought the sound of the words "big bang" sounded just as wonderful. Seeing that is he was a catholic priest after all.
Honestly I think its rude that you would even call this stale thinking. It must have been very exicting to come up with this and then have people accpet it. Nice post there MA, but I like to hear from you on your thought on being selfish. Seeing as I said eariler, that I think selfishinessis the most powerful emotion and dangerous emotion common in our world today. |
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| Posted on Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:08 pm | |||||||||
Lightbringer
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 |
MA: Well, one could make an argument that our greatest flaw is the mind. However, with every flaw comes a lesson that can be learned from overcoming or accepting that flaw. So deeming such a thing "bad" would be very different from calling it a flaw 
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:03 am | |||||||||
Felix_the_Cat
Joined: 17 Apr 2006 |
I pick up on how others feel before even seeing or talking to them. They don't give me emotions, and I (hopefully?) don't give them emotions. Sometimes I even pick up on how people feel over the Internet. (That's a big "sometimes", btw - doesn't happen very often! And of that I'm glad, there's too many angsty people on the Internet.) I never said I wasn't selfish. I believe selfishness to be a good thing, as long as you remain aware of others. As I said earlier - you should read some of Ayn Rand's books. And by "you" I mean "all of you". It certainly gives a different perspective from the ultra-liberal bullshit that you're spoon-fed by schools and society, the "love all men but demand of none" philosophy that is really a stepping stone to collectivism and ultimately loss of individual identity, as well as (ironically) many of the things we treasure, such as art, poetry, music, and literature.
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:23 am | |||||||||
Niushirra
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:48 am | |||||||||
MartialArtist
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 |
Tankdown:
If we would really have to point out the greatest "flaw" in human existence, yes it would be the ignorance regarding our true nature/being, for this ignorance creates the ego and sense of individualness. Selfishness is the main result of that. All duality and struggle and battle in life comes from this one thing inherent in common man: Ignorance about his true being. Lightbringer: True, true .
Well I can see your point, and your point is a good one, the explanation however, is in my eyes not entirely correct, or at least, putting it that way won't make anyone wiser or enlightened because you forget to mention one very important thing. The 'flaw' we humans have to work on to find back our source, is the fact that we, consciousness, has somehow become intertwined with creation. Creation is manifested out our deepest selves, and somehow consciousness forgot about its true nature and got attached and intertwined in created matter. We are now prisoners of our own creation. This is no punishment though, it is a blessing because we can now get to know ourselves better and unlock the potential power of both consciousness and nature(matter) by finding our way back through the illusions. So your point of saying:
Is very good because you are trying to say forget about all the details, all the opinions and perspectives, just integrate one essential, foundational concept: everything is one. That will be much more beneficial that chatting endlessly about the details of this existence. I agree. However, saying everything is just one giant mass of creation, does not free one from illusion. There has to be a clear distinction in ones perspective between nature and himself, in order to see through illusion and become enlightened. So yes, everything is one and the same in the end, however, nature is not the same as consicousness, and though they are connected, they are not the same. If one realizes this to the fullest, consciousness will detach itself from its attachment to nature and freedom will come. But your point saying: Keep things simple, keep things true, work with that and don't lose yourself in details. Is a very good point IMO. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:22 am | |||||||||
thegrogen
Joined: 18 Jun 2006 |
No, I didn't get that from Star Trek. Perhaps I phrased it wrong: I think Humanity's greatest flaw is its lack of control over its own emotions. Emotions are powerful things that can do much for us; in some ways, emotions like happiness, love, etc. are the only things keeping us from killing ourselves. And yet, simultaneously, emotions can kill us. Violence and war are the result of uncontrolled anger and hatred (which is an emotion that I think is immature), and love in the wrong circumstances can result in anger, sadness, hatred... Emotions are like intelligence. Used right, they are the most powerful tool in existence. Used wrong, and they destroy everything that we consciously and subconsciously work for. The only way to have TRUE world peace is to remove as many tendencies for violence as is possible. If everyone could get over hatred, could control and direct their own emotions, as some can their intelligence, then the world would be a better place. I'm a very emotional person. I've felt love, and I've felt anger, and I've felt sadness and happiness. I write poetry. But thanks to my emotional control, it is no longer possible for me to hate anything. It's no longer even possible for me to hurt anything, simply because I had to learn to control my emotions when I was younger. My emotions tended to get me into trouble, and so I learned to control them, direct them as I see fit. I can be happy anytime I like no matter what the circumstances. I hardly ever get angry, or sad, because I always manage to twist those emotions to happiness or some other "good" emotion.
I can say with certainty that you have never been in love and been rejected the instant you admit it. And I can say with certainty that that has never happened every time you've tried. Such are the circumstances in which I have grown up. Disclaimer: I've not read the rest of the thread. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:54 pm | |||||||||
Zemeon
Joined: 25 Apr 2006 |
If we didn't have emotions, there would be no love, no happiness, no joy, no sadness. Without those elements in life, you simply cannot live. Without love, there is no happiness. Without sadness, comes no happiness afterwards. I'm simply stating that technology would never be able to "replace" emotions. If they did, I would commit suicide. Life would be no good without emotions. We need them more than anything, because A person would be an idiot without emotions. |
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:02 pm | |||||||||
somefatguy
Joined: 17 Jan 2006 |
Hmm, very good responses from everyone, thanks.
Lightbringer: Yes, I have read about the mind being our biggest flaw. I just didn't want to repeat what I have learned, I wanted to try something out that is at least connected with the mind. Thegrogen: Heh, funny about your disclaimer. And I apologize for judging you, I just fell into Felix's stream and went along with him. MartialArtist: I see your point... -And who says Psipog is dead? -
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:50 pm | |||||||||
Lightbringer
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 |
Haha. Believe me, I've heard/read that the mind is our biggest flaw a thousand times. I only say it now because I'm finally beginning to embrace that statement rather than just understanding it as an abstract concept.
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| Posted on Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:19 pm | |||||||||
Lleu
Joined: 29 Apr 2006 |
First, I just realized the stupidity of the bolded part and apologize to anyone who wasted their time reading it. Actually, it was Fred Hoyle who coined the term 'The Big Bang'... And I'm still researching.... Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hoyle |
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