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levitation (floating)
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Posted on Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:01 pm

freakinrican626

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 514

wow!!! thats exactly what i was trying to say. geez...ya sometimes i have a tough time explaining what i actually mean, but a more efficient method is right on the mark.
thanks for that.
being cynical has its perks and i definitely respect that. Very Happy
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Posted on Sat Apr 29, 2006 5:49 pm

psionic_velociraptor

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

yeah,sometimes it happens to me, but yeah,maybe there is a techcike that requires less requirements.

i just think that psi is way beyond the logical,i think mixing both is quite interesting indeed but it doesnt mean that psi has to follow the rules of physics fully
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Posted on Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:06 pm

InnerFire

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 172

You misinterpret things, just because something might end up breaking the laws of physics doesn't mean its illogical, potentially almost every working in the universe is a logical function, but the laws of physics and stuff are *OUR* attempt to explain things, if something breaks them it doesn't make it magical it just means we got something wrong in our interpretation.

Remember the thing about technology being magic to those who don't understand it, its the same deal here. Trying to say that its illogical without some serious proof is just a cop out.
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Posted on Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:17 pm

psionic_velociraptor

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

not necessary,things usually dont break the laws if you can do something isnt because you broke a certain law.

its probebly because there is a specific law that allows this things to happen,like, the gravity pushes things to the earths core, right? if this is so why would a ball bounce, tk doesnt go against the laws, it probebly uses certains laws that arent comprehended by us or most of us,but we assume that it is breaking the laws.

it has nothing to do with magic i think psi is everywhere and is a normal thing
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Posted on Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:36 pm

InnerFire

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 172

psionic_velociraptor wrote:
not necessary,things usually dont break the laws if you can do something isnt because you broke a certain law.


Ok I can't understand that,

psionic_velociraptor wrote:
tk doesnt go against the laws, it probebly uses certains laws that arent comprehended by us or most of us,but we assume that it is breaking the laws.


but that part was exactly what I was saying in my post.
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Posted on Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:39 pm

psionic_velociraptor

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

Quote:
not necessary,things usually dont break the laws if you can do something isnt because you broke a certain law.



Ok I can't understand that,



i meant when you do certain things that we suppose they break the law,they simply dont break the laws, they just use other types of laws in order the get it accomplished
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Posted on Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:08 pm

Sky_Psion

Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 127

Have you ever heard of partial death(russian translation of the phrase)? It's when you sit in a big cube made of mirrors and get disorientated to the point of levitation. It was studied in Russia for a while, but I think they abandoned the project after finding no explanation. I would love to try it some time, if I ever find enough mirrors.
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Posted on Mon May 01, 2006 2:42 am

Lucidess

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 837

And then your butt will smudge the mirrors.. or your fingers. Wear gloves and socks XD So weird, but so interesting.
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Posted on Mon May 01, 2006 7:43 am

psionic_velociraptor

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

indeed pretty interesting, i'll research that
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Posted on Mon May 01, 2006 2:47 pm

InnerFire

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 172

Although cool as hell that project has very limited use, since the only viable explanation for the realm of psionics is that it is somehow triggering a subconcious effect, which would be for the most part uncontrollable unless you planned to carry around a human-sized cube of mirrors.
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Posted on Tue May 02, 2006 12:12 am

Sky_Psion

Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 127

Actually, I have found that thinking about the circumstances of a certain experience can physically recreate the events of that experience, so it could be a good training tool till you get good at floating.
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Posted on Sun May 07, 2006 11:05 pm

Darth_Bucky

Joined: 01 May 2006
Posts: 3

Ok, time for a fresh noob comment: I just read through 7 pages of yes, levitation is possible, no, nobody can do it, yes, some people can do it but only if they have done psi for years upon years....my brain is fried.

Scientifically speaking, is not psi itself 'impossible'? If we choose to trust science to define reality, we cannot choose when we wish for scientific laws to define reality and when we don't. I saw some pretty good arguments using physics to argue that, even if levitation is possible its energy requirement would be prohibitive.

Sorry! Physics as we know it denies the existence of ALL psi phenomena. We presume that energy and forces are involved to make psi effects occur, but have not yet been able to prove it. As far as science is concerned, an object cannot move unless it is acted on by a force. And currently, "thought" is not a physical force.

Science, by its nature, will always be an INCOMPLETE tool that we use to define the world around us. At best, it serves as our explanation of why things happen the way they do, with no guarantee that it is accurate. At one time, mankind believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. That was an incomplete -- and ultimately incorrect -- understanding of the universe.

This forum, however, represents a large number of people who have directly experienced psi effects. If psi is beyond science, nothing is a foregone conclusion. If mere thought can influence the physical world around us, what reason do we have to believe that the effect of our thoughts are limited -- that we can "push" objects with the mind but not "lift" them?

What I wonder is just how much are we held back by our beliefs? Can it be that we are held back by our daily experiences? Since it is natural to assume that psi still works within the realm of physics, then we logically believe that it is easier to levitate a toothpick than to levitate an entire tree. But as far as anybody has scientifically demonstrated, psi (and by extension, PK) does not work within the realm of physics. What does that say about our "natual" assumptions? Perhaps, even among the most gifted psions, it is more difficult to levitate large objects simply because it is so difficult to shake the belief itself?

Well, it's late at night and I'm rambling. If I'm just typing farts, let me know Very Happy
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Posted on Mon May 08, 2006 7:46 am

psionic_velociraptor

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

well, good explenation but let me clear somthing out people still thing its the "mind" who psuhes or moves objects its not, you simply use the mind to control energy and this energy IS the physical force that science should look for, my thought is that the mind only manipulates,control and interacts with energy fields.

auras for exemple,its not yet proven that they do exist but some people say they can see them i can see them, its pretty hard, the eye needs to reach a state of sensitivity, that honestly its pretty hard to reach

so i belive the mind doesnt do things the mind simply opens teh door that allows us to do it its not the mind that pushes the object,its the energy manipulated by the mind that pushes it
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Posted on Mon May 08, 2006 4:50 pm

InnerFire

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 172

Darth_Bucky wrote:
Ok, time for a fresh noob comment: I just read through 7 pages of yes, levitation is possible, no, nobody can do it, yes, some people can do it but only if they have done psi for years upon years....my brain is fried.

Scientifically speaking, is not psi itself 'impossible'? If we choose to trust science to define reality, we cannot choose when we wish for scientific laws to define reality and when we don't. I saw some pretty good arguments using physics to argue that, even if levitation is possible its energy requirement would be prohibitive.

Sorry! Physics as we know it denies the existence of ALL psi phenomena. We presume that energy and forces are involved to make psi effects occur, but have not yet been able to prove it. As far as science is concerned, an object cannot move unless it is acted on by a force. And currently, "thought" is not a physical force.

Science, by its nature, will always be an INCOMPLETE tool that we use to define the world around us. At best, it serves as our explanation of why things happen the way they do, with no guarantee that it is accurate. At one time, mankind believed that the Earth was the center of the universe. That was an incomplete -- and ultimately incorrect -- understanding of the universe.

This forum, however, represents a large number of people who have directly experienced psi effects. If psi is beyond science, nothing is a foregone conclusion. If mere thought can influence the physical world around us, what reason do we have to believe that the effect of our thoughts are limited -- that we can "push" objects with the mind but not "lift" them?

What I wonder is just how much are we held back by our beliefs? Can it be that we are held back by our daily experiences? Since it is natural to assume that psi still works within the realm of physics, then we logically believe that it is easier to levitate a toothpick than to levitate an entire tree. But as far as anybody has scientifically demonstrated, psi (and by extension, PK) does not work within the realm of physics. What does that say about our "natual" assumptions? Perhaps, even among the most gifted psions, it is more difficult to levitate large objects simply because it is so difficult to shake the belief itself?

Well, it's late at night and I'm rambling. If I'm just typing farts, let me know Very Happy


I think I might not have elaborated as much on this.

A) Yes science currently does not explain *everything*

B) Science is a human interpretation of the rules of the universe, just because we haven't included something doesn't mean that it defies reality, it defies our interpretation of reality

C) Its the logical extention to assume that something is still tied to reality unless otherwise proven, and note there isn't a loophole in all of physics that's not filled in, we just cannot prove yet how it works, the explanations here do not require that fact, it uses the basic knowledge of gravity to figure out how much force in newtons would be needed to counteract that effect and thus cause it to levitate.

D) Lets clear some things up since (not really targeting things at you in general people are screwing things up) people are making assumptions upon assumptions which is why we have the confusion). The amount of energy (energy as a scientific unit) it takes to lift/throw/punt/etc an object stays relatively the same, *more efficient* forms of lifting it are things that make it easier to lift mechanically, its still the same amount of work, sometimes it might even be more. Its like lifting a box from your legs doesn't change how heavy it is, its easier because you're transfering the weight to your legs which are almost always more muscular so the perception is that it is easier.

Just stop where you are with altering gravity, any thinking above the bare surface of that idea will show frankly just how stupid of an idea that is. Gravity is the result of an attraction caused by the Earth's tremendous mass (all objects do this is just that usually they're so small the level of attraction is minimal), which is a little under 6,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms... (for those of you that don't want to count zeroes thats 6 septillion!) To reduce gravity by conventional means would mean that you'd have to blow off a massive chunk of the Earth, even if you get some leeway and say maybe you can alter the way it works, you're trading off messing with an object that's exponentially bigger and heavier than what you were trying to manipulate in the first place. Theres no way messing with gravity could in any way be easier, if we clock an average human at 85 kilograms, the ratio is around 1:70,588,235,294,117,647,058,823. You're better off trying to mess with the object, really.

One of the more solid laws of the world's working is matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, although their forms may change. This is the core of the scientific arguments, I'll put a 99.9% in there solely because I have not done extensive research to make sure, but basically this is the rule of the universe. To say that lifting a heavier object with tk isn't harder is to challenge this law which is a cornerstone foundation of countless parts of scientific laws and processes. You cannot just say "well maybe that's wrong" in this case, if you're going to try to go against this you're going to need a lot of proof for any serious intellectual not to laugh right in your face.

E) Don't get me wrong I know from experience mental roadblocks can hinder a lot of stuff, but you're fooling yourself if you think just thinking its that easy. NI's articles mention something to this extent if I remember, physically and mentally the body needs time to adapt, sometimes quite a lot of time. To give the hard example Rainsong has been practicing what I think is around 30-40 years, and if I remember she can lift a canoe. The only way to say these things which obviously indicate that some of you guys think you can do this in a couple years is that you're saying that you're just naturally better than one of the most experienced people in the combined ring of psychic communites. Again like the scientific thing, you better have a hell of a lot of proof to back that up or there's no reason why we shouldn't laugh in your face.

F) Just to close on the mental roadblocks thing consider this: (yes its religious but it extremely applies to this situation, this is NOT to become a discussion on religion or prayer)

Quote:
God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.


Its the same idea going on here that you should be able to comprehend even if you're not in any way religious. There are some things that can be changed if your work your mind that way, there are also some things that cannot be. You should be able to know which is which.
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Posted on Mon May 08, 2006 4:56 pm

psionic_velociraptor

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

i understand what your saying then your telling me that a guy that can move a pencel is considered a "super human"?cause i cani apply the necessery amount of energy to move it, like how can someone channel that much energy to move it, i've seen movies of people moving books blocks of ice etc... your telling me that thise people do it because they control much more energy than any of us?
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