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| Posted on Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:16 pm | |||||||||
UltimaRage
Joined: 30 Aug 2006 |
That is the most bizarre statement I have heard in a long time. It's like the man looking for the invisible rabbit. He said, I have looked high and low and I can't find it, therefore it doesn't exist. If there are invisible rabbits, you are not going to find them anywhere. Why not? They are invisible. That doesn't prove they do exist, it just simply points out that you can't disqualify the existence of something by looking for it in a way that won't turn it up. You don't look for the mind in the brain and try to find a location for it because the mind is not something physical by definition. You can't conclude that it doesn't exist because you haven't found it after a century of looking. You don't find it that way. But there is a deeper problem. If consciousness is just a property created by the brain, which is what you're inferring if feelings are nothing more than chemical reactions, when you make a decision who or what does the deciding? If consciousness is a mere effect of chemical reactions in the brain, then your conscious act of deciding is not a free will act of your own, it is a result of some physical process that came before it. Your choices are controlled by physical events outside of your will. To put it more bluntly, you have no will at all. Not really. Why not? According to this view, physical states produce particular mental states, which produce particular physical states all following one after another in a determined pattern just like railroad cars following an engine. Of course I think you know better than to accept this, but you may be intimidated by scientists in white coats telling you that you aren't really feeling love, you're just having a chemical reaction. You're not really seeing something beautiful, this is just light of various wave lengths. You're not really hearing something wonderful, it is just vibrating molecules. Here's my final point on this issue. If the mind is reduced to the brain, pretty soon everything is lost. Feelings become chemical reactions, beautiful objects become light waves, beautiful music is reduced to vibrating molecules. Where did the music go? Where did the beauty go? Where did the feeling go? It's all gone. It ought to be obvious to us that this reduction is insane. It can't be made. It isn't valid. It's misleading. |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:13 am | |||||||||
paraplayer
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 |
"You're not really seeing something beautiful, this is just light of various wave lengths."
what? Are you saying that because we can explain it, it is less beautiful? "Here's my final point on this issue. If the mind is reduced to the brain, pretty soon everything is lost. Feelings become chemical reactions, beautiful objects become light waves, beautiful music is reduced to vibrating molecules. Where did the music go? Where did the beauty go? Where did the feeling go? It's all gone. It ought to be obvious to us that this reduction is insane. It can't be made. It isn't valid. It's misleading." That's just silly. Let's use the analogy of a video game. You can explain pretty much everything about it. You can look at it's programming. You can explain all of it! Does that make the game itself less great? "Where did the music go? Where did the beauty go? Where did the feeling go?" No where. "It ought to be obvious to us that this reduction is insane. It can't be made. It isn't valid. It's misleading." You're not even supporting your statements anymore. Why "can't it be made"? Why "isn't it valid"? Why is it "misleading."? |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:33 am | |||||||||
JOHNNYBEGOOD
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:13 am | |||||||||
DemonHunter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 |
I fully agree with you, but i wouldn't call it the down and dirty truth about how things work. I would rather say it's just how things work. Apart of that i find it more interesting to find out why things are happening.
I agree with you, but the funny thing about it seems to be that you only have no will, if you decide to have none. No one forces you to believe this model of reality. |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:29 am | |||||||||
freakinrican626
Joined: 23 Apr 2006 |
That has nothing to do with what I was saying. We aren't looking for anything. You have to explain what connection you're trying to make. |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:47 pm | |||||||||
infected
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 |
With this I disagree completely. Human body is a perfect machine. If you can't handle it perfectly it doesen't mean no one can. Scientists have figured out about 3% of how it works (and don't tell me this percentage is bullshit, think of how much we "know" in reality, excluding all the theories). So who are they to tell you the truth? The truth is with your feelings, but I guess you have to know it before you can believe it also. Don Juan once said, for one to comprehend this world, one must first crush down his entire world, everything that he believes in must be turned upside down. What lies ahead, isn't "real" or "unreal", it's only the truth. And there are no explanations needed at all. |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:35 pm | |||||||||
JOHNNYBEGOOD
Joined: 17 Jul 2006 |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:52 pm | |||||||||
paraplayer
Joined: 12 Jan 2006 |
Oh snap!
Why does the human body age, anyways? |
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:24 pm | |||||||||
DemonHunter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 |
Maybe it's only aging, because you think that it's aging? I think some scientists said they had found out, that some gland was responsable for aging. Let's just say he was right.
Now there is some psychosomatic element in us, right? I mean for example when you feel "down" or something, your body won't feel good either right? Well, bad example but i'm too tired to make up a better one. Anyway, being in this forum and talking about psi & influencing material stuff that is outside your body with your mind, it seems very ridiculous to me not being able to control your own body with your mind. I mean you are your body. Or at least you are more your body than you are a psiwheel. So i guess we could influence this gland that is responsable for aging. This would also explain why some people don't look like their age at all.  I have seen 30 year old people that look like 50 and 50 year old people that look like 30. I mean them doing it subconsciously. You could do it consciously.
So you're immortal. At least you're able to be immortal. Anyways, i don't know if it would be so great to be forever or for long times on this planet. It's kind of getting too crowded here. But well, you could have a lot of fun being here for some hundred years or something.
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| Posted on Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:42 pm | |||||||||
Roy
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
I think that percentage is bullshit. I want to know where you got that figure because I cannot fathom that it is even close to being accurate. And as far as the body being a perfect machine, that can mean anything since the definition for "perfect" is variable. Do you mean that the human body's component parts and systems work together efficiently, and that is your conception of perfect? Then yes, I'd agree. If you think, however, that our body is flawless, then you'd be severely mistaken. In the context of evolution, it is very well possible that junk DNA is just that...junk. It takes many, many generations for unused traits to phase out of our genetic makeup, so junk DNA as useless junk is certainly a reasonable conclusion. |
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| Posted on Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:51 am | |||||||||
infected
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 |
Body acts perfectly if it is in harmony with the mind. It is perfect in every possible aspect. Only weak minds invent things like melfunctions, because in reality, there is no such thing.
Yeah I know you're going to disagree and argue over the above statement. Honestly I don't care because everyone has to figure it out on his/her own.
Because we aren't wise enough. Well, most of us anyway. |
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| Posted on Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:42 am | |||||||||
Roy
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Yeah, go ahead and tell that to all the Parkinson's, Multiple Sclerosis, Alzheimers, Cerebral Palsy, and Epilepsy sufferers. I'm sure they'll totally agree with you. Especially the ones who develop the disorder as a young child. Have fun. |
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| Posted on Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:05 am | |||||||||
DemonHunter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 |
Maybe those diseases only represent their relation to their bodies and their states of mind? Ever thought of that? That's hard to prove but to me it makes sense. The interesting question is why people get infected by those diseases. |
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| Posted on Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:14 am | |||||||||
Roy
Joined: 27 Nov 2005 |
Yeah, a three year old child that barely has a conception of "good" and "bad" or "body" and "mind" is thinking its way into disease. Sturdy logic there, fellow. |
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| Posted on Sat Sep 23, 2006 11:44 am | |||||||||
DemonHunter
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 |
I agree. The logic sucks. So let me further explain it to you in a more worked out version. What you are, is you, your body is you, too. So the disease is you in a way. I don't say you have to realise yourself as "body" and "mind" or "good" and "bad". I don't say either that the disease has to be self-inflicted. Or at least not only. Things just happen as they happen. Childs are formed by their surroundings more than adults. Do you agree if i say that if a child accepts ways of thinking from other people, it might come to the point where it thinks the same way or at least to a certain extent? If the three year old child is being formed by it's surroundings in it's way of thinking, following my logic, this way of thinking could contain "the disease" and infect the child. I don't say that the people that form the child's thinking have to be infected by the disease, or maybe not yet. It's just about the way of thinking. My point is that children are more defenseless than adults in every way, but at the same time, they are stronger, too. So it is easier for them to be infected or it's easier for "the disease" to break out faster, but it's easier for them to be cured, too. In my childhood i had very hard diseases, and i had many, but i didn't die and now i'm as healthy as i can be. Adults would often die if they had those diseases i had. I don't mean either that it's the own fault of adults, (or at least not only their fault) who have diseases, that they have the disease. But i believe that they could cure the disease by changing their way of thinking. But not only the way of thinking, the way of being, too. So in fact the way they're feeling too, and the way they deal with those feelings, or with the feelings from other people. It's kind of hard to understand this but watch people who have diseases. Watch people who have the same diseases. Sure, they're totally different persons, but there's something similar in their way of acting. There's something similar in the way they deal with their emotions. Sure, you might say it's coincidence or just in those special cases. But if you wanted you could say to everything that happens without a plausible reason that it could be coincidence. But considering coincidence, things get weird, so let's just say it's not a coincidence. 
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