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My skeptism: Teleportation and Cloaking = False

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My skeptism: Teleportation and Cloaking = False on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:17 am

batworz

Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 128

Yes I believe in OBE's and came close to on, Yes I believe in TK since I've had experiences of it on certain occasions, Yes I believe in Aura since I can see Aura with some focus.

but what I do find hard to believe is physical body teleportation (I've read upon this somewhere here) and Cloaking (making yourself invisible).

Personally I believe these 2 are fake, unless of course if anyone could convince me.

For Teleportation I've read it was done from reading some government papers, link found on this forum about chinese researchers experimenting but not from psi.

Cloaking via Psychic ways I can't believe since you can't have optical illusion without special materials called "meta-materials," materials that deflect light and optical camoflauge material demonstrated in Tokyo university (do a search for it on google). I've read upon the metamaterials on BBC.

So yeah, it made me laugh not too long ago when somebody said they made their hands invisible after making psi-balls. People say it could be possible but no one really has said that they've done it with proof.

Well according to physics (1st year Uni level anyway) I says this is impossible. Well what do you say?

Posted on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:28 am

SheepKing

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 728

I'd probably have to agree with you, but physics doesn't/can't explain everything yet, we haven't advanced that far.

And as for "cloaking" the eyes can be deceived, you don't actually have to manipulate electromagnetic waves, just brain waves Wink

Posted on Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:38 am

batworz

Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 128

Now that's easier said than done.

Posted on Wed Jul 12, 2006 9:28 am

boirac

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 4

Hi Batworz,

from the perspective of physics (I'm doing a PhD in quantum physics) none of this makes sense, of course. OBE or TK are not explained either. But certainly many things remain to be explained within and outside the realm of traditional physics. A system like a nervous system is too complex to describe in terms of physical interactions... so many new things remain to be learnt.

Concerning teleportation, something close to the idea we have of teleportation can be done with particles. You can read more here:
http://www.research.ibm.com/quantuminfo/teleportation/
but basically you need two areas to have communicated somehow in the past (through light, sharing atoms, etc...). Some particles in A with given properties will loose their properties, and become totally random. The particles that were random in B will now acquire the properties of the particles in A. Nevertheless you need to send some information classically (with a telephone, a cable, Internet, light, etc ) for it to work.

That is the closest physics has been from Teleportation. Doing it with big objects (like a dust particle) seems totally unrealistic at the moment.

But PK is also forbidden in traditional physics. No know interaction with enough strength should come out of our bodies or brains.

There are ideas for Cloaking too that don't involve meta-materials (and the meta-materials seem pretty easy to spot and quite fake). You can look at:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~ulf/invisibility.html
for serious physical ideas. Hands disappearing in a psi ball could be, but I've never seen it either. But just as OBE it could be our own brain playing tricks on us. Otherwise it could be a very very complex and unlikely bending of light rays changing the refractive indexes around our hands... how? Well, if "psi" indeed exists we do not know how it operates,.. so it would still be a mystery.

Posted on Wed Jul 12, 2006 11:02 am

Peebrain

Site Admin
Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 716

As Sheep said... cloaking only has to affect the mind of the person looking at you. It falls under telepathic suggestion. If a camera is ponted at you, it will still see you - just the person looking at you can't see you. No light-bending required.

At least, that's how I believe the ability works. I've never video taped myself cloaking in front of somebody before.

~Sean

Posted on Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:40 pm

Teekay

Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 79

I don't know much about either of these subjects, but I can still speculate. In another thread the topic of phasing has been discussed. I know that phasing is another skeptical skill, but I have faith in the members who have said they experienced it. Now, if it were possible for a person to physically slip through another solid object, is it really so hard to believe that one object can be made to exist in another location? After all, particles are randomly popping in and out of 'existence' and there also some kind of quantum physics thing that states that a particle can exist in multiple locations at once. They even have photographs of it. (no idea what it is called) Check out that thread, theres a theory on how phasing is possible. If that is how it might work, then maybe it can be done by changing the location in which particles become existant, in addition to the instant.

All speculation, but neat anyways.

Posted on Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:03 pm

boirac

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 4

As far as we know in physics, which is little, nothing allows for such an effect as phasing or teleportation. You cannot photograph particles being in 2 places at the same time, but only see the effect if you repeat the experiment many times (like in the double slit experiment
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4237751840526284618 ). As for particles being created... if you want them to last more than a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a second you need to use a paramount amount of energy (maybe as much as to compress the earth to a nut)... so... no explanations on the side of physics.

Posted on Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:24 pm

Niushirra

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 299

Teleportation psionically is not an ability that I recoginize as truth. Cloaking is, like peebrain said, telepathic suggestion. I think if someone was staring right at you and knew you were supposed to be there, they would see you. If you were like in a crowded party and had a cloak sheild up no one would NOTICE you. Seeing and noticing are different things.

Posted on Thu Jul 13, 2006 9:54 pm

bladeslinger

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1337

Yea, it's kind of like suggesting "Meh" to people...they just don't notice you and kind of go...meh

Posted on Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:58 pm

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

Well, as a practioner of both abilities, I'd say you're being pretty close minded about the subject for totally illogical reasons. As many have said, NONE of the things discussed on this site are explainable with modern physics. Thus the public's rejection of the existence of such things. Just because they're more advanced and you can't do them at your current level of psionic skill doesn't mean it's unbelieveable.

Nothing is more frustrating than someone who OBEs, spins a piece of paper, bends a bit of silverware then thinks that they know what is real and what isn't...

Posted on Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:56 pm

WhiteRaven

Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 343

Lightbringer, how hard is moving shit? don't you think it would be a tremendous amount harder to pull shit apart atom by atom and put it back together somewhere else?

Posted on Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:15 pm

Niushirra

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 299

WhiteRaven wrote:

Lightbringer, how hard is moving shit? don't you think it would be a tremendous amount harder to pull shit apart atom by atom and put it back together somewhere else?

When did ANYONE say that was the only form of teleportation possible? I happen to not even see taking things apart and putting them back together as teleportation. It just does the same effect.

Posted on Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:28 pm

Etree8

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 340

WhiteRaven wrote:

Lightbringer, how hard is moving shit? don't you think it would be a tremendous amount harder to pull shit apart atom by atom and put it back together somewhere else?

Hee hee...... if you did it like that, you'd get a clouds of the atoms that make us up flying through cities. And if you only did it partyway, well......

"Hey, Mommy! I just saw a flying spleen!"

Posted on Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:04 am

batworz

Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 128

well then what about shadows?

Posted on Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:13 am

Lightbringer

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 293

What about shadows? If you bent light around you, no light would be blocked by your body and no shadow would appear. If you used the TPS method, ALL things indicating your visible existence would be hidden by a person's own mind so they wouldn't perceive you. You seem to think that little shadows would be running around, but then why not disembodied teeth or hair or clothes? You COULD use TPS to let someone only see those parts of you, but just as easily you could make someone see absolutely no part of you.

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