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OBE Skepticism

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OBE Skepticism on Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:25 am

larryleisure

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 44

Hello Everyone.

Some days ago, there was a thread in a forum (not Psy stuff related at all, but anyway....) about OBE. It's a topic that interests me..... but I'm a skeptic. And there were a lot of peeps claiming they could OBE... so I decided to post a reply. Since I was not satisfied at all with the responses I got, I'm posting the same here today (found this place thanks to that other thread in fact). Hopefully something more interesting will come up.

Quote:

allright guys, that's all nice... but
There are hundred thousands of peeps claiming they can do that...
I'm not against believing in this at all, but I'm a very skeptic guy..
I read here in this thread many of you claiming they can do it very easily... fine by me.. and on the other hand on some so-called more specialised forums and sites, you see people having trained themselves for years before managing OBE's.
Basically I need proofs, and if that really exists, if there really is a mind outside of the body, and this since the beginning of time, how come that hasn't been proved yet???
I sometimes wonder if first most people say they can do that because they then think they'll look cool (and honestly I'm sure there are a lot like that) or maybe because they're so much believing in it than they really believe they go outside of their body, or maybe it's jut true...
I find it funny to read many times what really distincts the dream from the OBE... seriously who the hell defined that? What makes you really think you're out of your body and that that is different from your dream. How do you know that you're not just dreaming but instead of that you're actually OUTSIDE of your body. Maybe you're just dreaming that you're outside of your body, in sort of a lucid dream, unconsciously, and consciously you think you're having an OBE. Again, I'm not saying this is bulls...t but it's just too easy to say all that, and it's too easy to make people believe in this... whilst on the other end, maybe it was all just dreams, flashes, ... images and films that you generate with your own brain...
I quite regularly do lucid dreams, and when I know that, I very often start to fly... that's one of my pleasures, honestly. So I believe in the power of the brain, probably even more than into some kind of spirit detaching from the physical world.

As to come back on proofs, don't tell me there's no way to prove that this is possible. I'm sure it's possible... unfortunately it looks like if no one is ready to help proving all this...

don't you think that would change people's lifes??? I think tons of people would start to live differently, think differently, if they knew, for sure, this was possible, & if they knew for sure that there's not only what's physicall, but there's also beyond that..

Thoughts?

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:29 am

Niushirra

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 299

See that's where your wrong. The psionic community is a bunch of people who don't really care about how these things could change the world. They just do them. For some insane reason they really do not care about spreading the word or proving it. Even when $1,000,000 is being offered...

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:44 am

bladeslinger

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1337

Niushirra wrote:

pretty blunt but yea, the 1,000,000 would get alot of unwanted attention and they would say whatever we do was a trick.

Anyways, it's not bad to be a skeptic especially in OBEs. In OBEs you can visit people, you can meet other travellers and all that stuff. Alot of the truth in OBEs is from personal experience. You mentioned that some people take years, that would vary from person to person. Some get it really early but some get to an OBE after long periods of training.

I hope this answered some o your questions. Very Happy

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:35 am

maxus

Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 851

Larryleisure, try an OBE yourself, after some practice, you will see that they are most definately real, i know, i had my first one today Very Happy

, short, but enjoyable.

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:09 pm

mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Ah, and the main website is www.psipog.net Razz

Just in case you didn't know. The article's around there somewhere (and hey, maybe while searching about, you'll come across an article you find interesting).

I can't answer questions because I've never done an OBE before, and I don't remember much of the topic. I hope somebody else can answer your questions, though.

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:39 am

larryleisure

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 44

First, thanks for your replies. Smile

Niushirra wrote:

See, that's where you're wrong Wink

I never mentionned anything about money, and never will I. I can understand the fact you guys do that for yourselves. But making things known to a wider audience, if proven to be true though, can have its advantages, at least that's my feeling. And I have the impression the benefits of this could be much more than just a million or even billion dollars. Now I know where you come from, in this greedy World, people would probably first think of a way to make money.... but put that aside please and think about other positive outcomes.

I'm always thinking in terms of future, and sooner or later if this proves to be true, then that means it will be the way forward, the direction every single human being someday will have to take, because to me that is probably the next stage in human evolution, all that stuff that has to do with consciousness/unconsiousness (my view though... u may disagree). So if that's the case, why not try to speed up the change process/evolution? Should this be true, that would mean that you guys are now sitting at the front seat, and so it's your experience that is needed.
Anyway, I don't try to convince you about doing that, I'm just thinking of the benefits that would bring and so I can't help it but I had to say this.
What's more beautifull than contributing to Evolution?? Tell me? To contribute to yours only? That's one thing but that's not all I think.
And don't tell me it cannot be proved, it certainly can.... but has never been done so far, to my knowledge though.

Quote:

Larryleisure, try an OBE yourself, after some practice, you will see that they are most definately real, i know, i had my first one today , short, but enjoyable.

What's make you think it was an OBE and that you were not 'dreaming' you were OBE'ing. Remember before doing that you were sort of forcing you to have one, so.... perhaps you forced you to believe were OBE'ing, if you see what I mean.

Quote:

pretty blunt but yea, the 1,000,000 would get alot of unwanted attention and they would say whatever we do was a trick.

I don't think that could ever be compared to a magician doing tricks..... Everyone knows magicians cheats. We don't know if you guys cheat, or let's say we don't know yet.

I'll finish with that for now, hopefully this will continue a bit. Thanks again for your replies so far, looking forward to the next ones.

You know, I've tried already to OBE, and managed to reach some points and I also experience some of the sensations mentionned, but that could all be my brain, and my brain only. If you really want to believe you also are etheric, fine by me... I just can't believe things blindly without asking myself all the necessary questions. It's too easy to believe anything nowadays, there's so much bullsh1t going around....
Why would you believe in one God and not in another.. they could both be very valid... but as a human being you'll usually pick one up, the one that has to do with your culture most probably... Then again, WHY? Why does the other one become invalid for you then?? What's the final truth then, there must be one though, no??
It's just about taking the time to think about things, not just taking things for granted... and well that's what I'm doing here... I need to know by asking questions... and I'm sure that will not only benefit me... I'm probably not the only St-Thomas here

cheers All Wink

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:19 am

maxus

Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 851

Quote:

Larryleisure, try an OBE yourself, after some practice, you will see that they are most definately real, i know, i had my first one today, short, but enjoyable.
What's make you think it was an OBE and that you were not 'dreaming' you were OBE'ing. Remember before doing that you were sort of forcing you to have one, so.... perhaps you forced you to believe were OBE'ing, if you see what I mean.

I wasnt forcing myself, i was relaxing, i just let the OBE happen, and it wasnt a dream, as i went into the kitchen, saw my mum chopping mushrooms, then i went back into my body, an hour or so later i said, were you chopping mushrooms in the kitchen about an hour ago, and she said yes, and the time fits perfectly, so i am sure that this was an OBE, as i said, try it yourself, the problem with skeptics around here is they do not try things for themselves, and so they believe it is not real, i was once a skeptic, but now i am a firm believer in Pk as i decided to try it for myself, i still suggest you try OBE's for yourself, you cannot be a true skeptic if you have not tried things for yourself.[/quote]

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:22 pm

larryleisure

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 44

fully agree with you. I'll try that again, count on it.

But see, the thing you say about you sayign ur mum chopping mushrooms... seriously if it's that easy to prove.... I don't understand why it hasn't been done yet....
Trust you understand my point.

Which technique do u use? Monroe's?

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:59 pm

maxus

Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 851

Being honest, i havnt tried monroes techniques at all, i used the techniques from the articles on psipog, theyre very enlightening on the subject.
As for the proof of OBE's, it seems that OBE's have to be accepted by skeptic to be able to exist, this is very untrue, most skeptics have never tried an OBE in their life, and for the skeptics that did try one and successfully have an OBE, well, theyre no longer skeptics, basically, skeptics are skeptics because they havnt tried it for themselves, if they were to try it, then they would become 'believers', if an OBE doesnt happen straight away, it just means that you need practice, it took me a lot of relaxation to be able to have an OBE, OBE's dont generally happen straight away.
This is the other *problem* with skeptics, they dont stick with it long enough to be able to have one, and if theyre skeptical of OBE's, and try to have an OBE, they will fail miserably, as you have to also believe they are real.
So the short answer to your question 'why havnt they been proven?', is that skeptics havnt stuck at it long enough to have an OBE, or they dont believe in OBE's, so they will fail to have one, and label it as nonsense.

2 things:
When i say *problem*, there isnt a problem with skeptics, i just couldnt find the correct word to describe them Confused

Also, im sorry about the length of this post, i may have repeated things over and over, as my concentration isnt at its best, because im half watching 'Sin City' - great movie with bruce willis and quentin tarantino, and half writing this post.
I hope this has answered your questions.

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:50 pm

Polymer

Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 85

Dumb people beleive somthing to their advantage. Average person will ask for statistics or research before they make their decision. Meaning they will let other people make their choice for them. Smart people when they care enough about somthing will willingly practice or study with an open mind what he is trying to find out. Most skeptics are average people.
I agree with maxus that if you want to know the truth about somthing then you should if possible practice it yourself. because otherwise you are relying on others to make your choices for you.

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:24 pm

bladeslinger

Joined: 10 Feb 2006
Posts: 1337

Quote:

pretty blunt but yea, the 1,000,000 would get alot of unwanted attention and they would say whatever we do was a trick.

I don't think that could ever be compared to a magician doing tricks..... Everyone knows magicians cheats. We don't know if you guys cheat, or let's say we don't know yet.

[/quote]
Most people think this is all tricks, smoke and mirrors. People also think we cheat and most demand us to admit we're liars and frauds...

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:41 pm

mattz1010

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 885

Oh and if you want to know why Niushirra is being mean when he doesn't have to, it's because the majority of the forum members disagreed with him when he tried to get us to go out and make other people acknowledge psions' presence.

Since then, he's been bitter about everything.

Kief will tell you that everything they say on this website is a lie.

I haven't had an OBE, but I can bet the experience is fully different from a normal Lucid Dream.

I'll try to come up with a good analogy...

Let's say, for example, you're walking in your neighbourhood, in real life.
Then, you have a dream of walking around in the same places, doing the exact same things.

But being in a dream feels different, doesn't it? I guess it's the same thing between LD's and OBE's. You can 'feel' the difference between them. It's not a conscious difference, though, more like something in the background.

I hope I explained it to the best I can. If it's still kinda confusing, I can get a better analogy.

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:19 pm

pepsiboy

Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 562

hold a fork
and repeat
there is no spoon

hold a spoon
and repeat
there is no spoon

two different worlds

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:31 am

Niushirra

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 299

I think your confusing bitterness with the best course of action for this... particular situation, mattz.

Try proving what an OBE is. Is it a dream? The next mental to physical direct connection? Is it an illusion that is not quite a dream but just a hallucination? You could answer most of these questions and narrow it down easily but it's not so easy. Precog. exists through, I think, your subconscious picking up on subtle little things and then using all this complicated chaos theory crap to give you a possible future. They are usually right because the ones your sub. send you are the ones that it knows are most likely right. The ones it had bigger factors for and the ones that it had more time to think about. If you read peebrain's "talking to your sub." article he explains how to truly commune with your sub. which is confusing but he also says that after he did this he was getting these short commands from his sub. They would be something strange like, "Grap your umbrella," or, "Take a left here." All of them seemed arbitrary when he did them so sometimes he wouldn't take notice to them but when he did do them he realized his sub. was giving him tips about what would happen next. When he did one of these crazy requests things later would turn out good for him and when he started doing all of them it was like he got really really good luck. They say we only use 10% of our brains but that's a lie. I think we only control or listen to only half the time 10% of our brains. The other 90% our subconscious controls and we don't really worry about our sub. much. If we did that's where precog. would come from. Some people have a more "caring" sub. and those are the "naturals."

All this relates somewhat to an OBE. An OBE could be just your sub. picking up on these subtle things and giving you an accurate hallucination of what the present world is like when you do it. There's a lot of stuff that could prove it to be something else but you'll have to find that yourself.

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:45 pm

DanielH

Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 479

Quote:

- Niushirra

That's not true of the entire community. I really care about how these things can change the world, and I really care about $1,000,000. Even if I didn't care about having a lot of money I'd give those million dollars to starving children or other people who need the money. You don't care about making this world a better place?

There is already a topic on this. I'm locking this one because I think more people will post in the other one. Who knows. Let's hope and pray.

http://www.psipog.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2443

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