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Quantum Theory

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Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:47 am

MarcusT

Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 227

Yes, you've guys have done your homework well. If i hadn't been so dang busy with a new job, I would have had posted some of those nice long posts well on the propagation of waves of electrons ect.
As for the string theory, to me makes fairly logical sense but hopefully someday come up with proof for it Razz

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:58 am

Revelation

Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 15

I am no scientist... If there is anything that might have been wrong, or if there is more to add, please share. Anybody.

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:29 pm

freakinrican626

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 514

ya i think you hit it all right on the money rev

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 1:19 pm

pepsiboy

Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 562

being under the influence sure does influence you a lot

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:14 pm

Revelation

Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 15

You have no idea....

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:18 pm

pepsiboy

Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 562

or so you THINK ...

i have seperated the sky into white and blue

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:23 pm

fraud12

Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 39

Oh, so was that you, then?

Posted on Thu Jul 06, 2006 7:48 pm

Revelation

Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 15

What are you sayin pepsi? Are you reading my mind? Do you know my experiences? Shocked

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 12:12 pm

Polymer

Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 85

This is a website which is experimenting with somthing related to this theory. Basically a computer somewhere is recording the "random" results from a radioactive object that was or still is decaying. The results are recorded on a computer and kept there until the results are presented to a psion who wants to try the experiment.(if my understanding of it is correct) It is called Retropsychokinesis. It's very interesting and fun. http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/experiments/

Posted on Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:34 pm

freakinrican626

Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 514

pepsiboy wrote:

or so you THINK ...

i have seperated the sky into white and blue

i wish i could do that, but what does that have to do with what we're talking about?

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:07 pm

pants

Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 18

'Quantim Mechanics states that when there is no observer of an object it literally doesn't exist'

Not quite. That is an assumption to iron over a tricky part of quantum physics. We really dont actually know how things are working, and the observer is an abstract statement. It has nothing to do with a human or conscious observer. (This can be explained in more detail later on.)

'so what if you use your perception of an object to alter the reality of it?'

Consciousness has no effect on quantum effects. There is an elegant test that ill also explain later on.

'Ah, this ties in with something I have been pondering a while now. I saw a cartoon vid of an experiment done by scientists on particles. They fired them through a wall with holes in.'

Sound similar to a video made by RSE who are currently dangerously near to being a cult. (They have attempted to prove one of there claims of levitation but the scientist produced insignificantly small results. When they cant prove 100 grammes of difference when the group claims to have the capability to levitate clean off the ground it lends credence to the idea that the thousands of pounds worth of entry fees taken arnt going in to a particularly useful form of education...) However, the experiment itself is called the double split experiment. Imagine you fire paint balls at random through a couple of slits itll produce a nice even covering on the other side. Now stick the slits in some water and push some through you will see the small waves eminating from the slits and they will interfere with each other and create a pattern on the back wall. This is a good enough example of the difference between particles and waves. However, what happens with particles at a quantum level is that they behave like both, even when you fire only a single particle at a time at the double slits it can produce a wave like pattern. With only a single particle this shouldnt be happening. There is nothing to interfere with its progress. What makes it even more frustratingly bizzare is that when you try to observe exactly what is happening, the pattern that indicates it is a wave vanishes.

No one knows why this happens and the theories venture mainly in to philosophy rather than physics. (The many worlds interpretation which sci-fi often carried away with doesnt actually have any proof.) Most people accept the coppenhagen explanation which is basically that the particle is a probabilty field until you locate it, at which point youve broken it down to a single option. (Essentially the particle is in all possibile positions at the same time until it is located. Though please dont mistake that for meaning there are millions of particles or that there is no particle until it is found as you seemed to in the first sentance I quoted.) This is an explanation of convenience rather than being particularly superior to the other theories. The only real proof that it is any better is Occams Razor. (Which to be fair does work most of the time.)

'By the introduction of the string theory, multiple dimensions that is unseen to us(10 in all), causes a flow of this energy, Psi as some of you like to call it, which connects through each and every particle of matter in this universe. By theory, with enough power over the mind, not only can you move an object with your mind, you can transplant it to another location in this universe.'

'Like I said, string theory relates every peice of matter to another through a mass matrix web of such string-like connection.'

String theory and multiple dimensions do not cause a flow of psi energy as far as any part of science is concerned. The one point to string theory is unification. This does not bind us and the universe together in any way that would support our control with mental capabilities. It binds us together in much the same way as we are all under the affect of gravity. (Even my meager mass is having a miniscule gravitational effect, that has in my life time spread lightyears in every direction. A powerful idea yes, but not evidence of any real controlling power over the universe, at least not more controlling power than your average rock.) Its a set of laws to define how things function. In more depth it is an attempt to bind gravity with the other forces. For those who dont realise it gravity is exceptionally weak which is both odd and doesnt fit with quantum physics. We have two rule sets currently. The quantum ruled by quantum mechanics and the macro ruled by Einsteins relativity. Binding them together is string theories purpose.

' It is electricity, electrons.'

The electrical force of a brain is a measurable phenomena and the human brain is entirely incapable of putting out a sufficient force of this type to affect anything to any degree even if there were mechanisms by which it could be projected, focused and altered. If psi exists it is doubtful it takes this form.

'Only until the box is open, and is observed by an observor, is the determination of decayed or not decayed, life or death.'

You have misunderstood the purpose of the experiment. Ill try to explain and cover anything I missed previously.

The purpose of Shrodingers cat isnt to demostrate that things exist in multiple states, its quite the opposite. The fact that a quntum superposition is controlling whether the cat is dead or alive is the tip of the iceberg quantum superposition exists all around us it would mean that the world would be in a confusing mess of every probability, each of us seeing a probabilistic version of our own. This doesnt happen, cats are never alive and dead they are one or the other. How can we know this? Well if you get abstract enough we cant know it for sure, but that level of abstraction is pointless and would essentially grind all science to a halt due to it rendering every bit of information youve ever had useless. Bring it down to a useful level and you will realise that things opperate by deterministic laws in the macro universe.

If I was to drop an object in a vacuum under 1G it would hit the bottom at exactly the same time, every time. Whats more it would do so for every single person observing the experiment. If we were in a quantum universe people would be seeing all manner of results occuring. (This is demonstrated in the quantum cafe shown in the elegant universe.)

Quantum physics breaks down somewhere and that is where the observer comes in. The observer is often mistaken for being the human running the experiment. Thats not true infact thats just about the only observer we can eliminate. In reality the observer could be anything, it could be the recording instrument, it could be the cat, it could be the box that cat is in. The observer is simply what causes the probability field to break down.

That in itself doesnt eliminate the idea that the human mind could be something to do with determining the outcome of quantum effects. (Though it does diminish it somewhat.) Which is why there are experiments to test just what effect consciousness has upon the experiment. This is one of them, they ran an equivalent of schrodingers cat (Though no cats were harmed in the research...) they then produced the results on two seperate cards. Either one on its own would not tell you the answer i.e. neither scientist is conscious of the result. Now the moment that consciousness comes in to play and they bring the cards back together the results do not alter and both scientists can confirm the same result. No matter how many times the experiment is run. No matter how many times the scientists will the results one way or another it never ever changes when consciousness is brought in to it. Proof positive that the quantum state breaks down before any conscious observer is involved.

So in summary quantum physics doesnt support psi or any other abilities for two reasons.
a) quantum effects break down long before they would be in effect upon the macro universe.
b) quantum effects have been proven to have nothing to do with human consciousness.

It has been a while since ive gone in to any depth in quantum physics and im hardly infalible so there will probably be inaccuracies in this post, however, I am quite sure of the conclusion unless someone can provide some evidence to counter the current knowledge we have.

Quantum physics has been the cause of several cults and sent multiple, fairly intelligent, physicists loopy. Try not to get bogged down in the philosophy and consciousness as it gets out of control fast. As with all science stick with what can be proven.

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:19 pm

pepsiboy

Joined: 25 Jun 2006
Posts: 562

uhm.. that was a VERY long post to read and it has NOT answered a single "question"

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:22 pm

FinallyEffingJoined

Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 223

I watched a 3 hour special on Quantum physics vs String theory one time... String one in my book.. didnt recall much, i think i was in a haze of boredom.

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:32 pm

wannabepker

Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 71

Revelation wrote:

Strangly enough Mordak, but I believe what you are talking about I saw in great detail last night. Of course, I was on some drugs, but in an instant, the entire realm of these brightly colored, cube shaped systems became aparant to me. It overcame me in a sense, and my entire vision was overtaken by a lot of systematically positioned(i.e. not randomly placed, but extremely extremely orderly) cubelike structures. But this seems to be the same patterns that I tend to see when looking at any object. That staticy electromagneticness... I don't know if you guys know exactly what I'm talking about, but it's definately something that I am well aware of.

Wait, so you got high and then saw bright colors? Whats so special about that? And they were probably apparent to you normally because you got high before, and theres still a little bit in your system.

Posted on Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:02 pm

pants

Joined: 08 Jul 2006
Posts: 18

'uhm.. that was a VERY long post to read and it has NOT answered a single "question"'

As far as im aware on this entire thread you have not asked a 'single question'.

What exactly hasnt been answered for you? Ill be glad to have a go at explaining.

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